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WORK TITLE: Well, That Escalated Quickly
WORK NOTES:
PSEUDONYM(S): Chescaleigh
BIRTHDATE: 11/29/1983
WEBSITE: http://www.franchesca.net/
CITY: New York
STATE: NY
COUNTRY: United States
NATIONALITY: American
RESEARCHER NOTES:
PERSONAL
Born November 29, 1983; married Patrick Kondas.
EDUCATION:Studied law at St. John’s University.
ADDRESS
CAREER
Author and vlogger. Former writer and contributor, The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore, Comedy Central; host, Decoded, MTV News.
WRITINGS
SIDELIGHTS
Author, vlogger, and comedienne Franchesca Ramsey is better known by her online nickname Chescaleigh. “My ‘claim to fame’ came in January 2012,” she explained in an autobiographical statement appearing on her home page, the Franchesca Ramsey website, “when my video, ‘Sh*t White Girls Say … to Black Girls’ (SWGSTBG) went viral.” Within a week the video had been played more than five million times across the world. The popularity of the video catapulted Ramsey to Internet superstardom and made her one of the best-known online performers in the world.
Ramsey writes about her life, the success of SWGSTBG, and about her subsequent career, in Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist. “Even before YouTube or Twitter, the internet was kind of Ms. Ramsey’s thing,” stated Concepción de León in the New York Times. “An only child, she was raised in West Palm Beach, Fla. and exposed to computers early; she took a typing class in the third grade and had a website by the time she was in high school. It was the mid 1990s, and she didn’t own a digital camera, so she’d upload scanned photos to her site and blog about what was going on in her life. ‘Every party, I would take pictures at, every play,’ she said. ‘I liked just keeping track of everything.'” The arrival of social media in the form of YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter accelerated the process that Ramsey had already begun. “YouTube has been so incredible to me, just the audience that I’ve built there, the friends that I’ve made, the relationship that I have with YouTube themselves has been really cool for me,” Ramsey told Robert Garcia and Adrian Bartos in the National Public Radio program What’s Good with Stretch & Bobbito. “And so as long as I’m able to continue making things that I feel proud of, I’m happy if millions of people are watching it. But I’m happy if like five people and my mom are watching it. So for me, I try to tell creators of all backgrounds that you should do it because you love it.”
Critics found Well, That Escalated Quickly an enlightening examination of the forces that shaped Ramsey’s life and the ways that it moved her to embrace social justice. Her “stories and lessons learned,” declared Laura Chanoux in Booklist, “provide a window into today’s online culture as well as tools for new activists.” Ramsey “offers her story as an illustration of why, in today’s overheated social and political environment,” wrote a Kirkus Reviews contributor, “it is more important than ever to pay close attention to how we communicate.”
The reviewers also offered praise for Ramsey’s memoir and social justice manifesto. “I think Well, That Escalated Quickly will mostly appeal to readers who are already a part of Ramsey’s fan base,” stated a contributor to Black Girl Nerds. “It is mostly personal, though it can serve as an introduction to some social justice conversations. As someone who is always curious as to how people get their start or big break in any category of the entertainment industry, I found this to be a great read.” “Ramsey has put together a book that will give you all the tools you need to begin making the most of your online experience in this new age of social media,” said Kerri Jarema in Bustle: “one in which being ‘woke’ is paramount, but even the most socially conscious person can get caught up in a negative conversations or situations…. More than just a general guide to not being awful on the internet, Ramsey’s book is must-read.”
BIOCRIT
PERIODICALS
Booklist, March 15, 2018, Larua Chanoux, review of Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist, p. 6.
Kirkus Reviews, March 1, 2018, review of Well, That Escalated Quickly.
New York Times, May 10, 2018, Concepción de León, “Why Franchesca Ramsey Is Done Feeding the Trolls.”
ONLINE
Black Girl Nerds, https://blackgirlnerds.com/ (April 2, 2018), review of Well, That Escalated Quickly.
Bustle, https://www.bustle.com/ (May 17, 2018), Kerri Jarema, review of Well, That Escalated Quickly.
Franchesca Ramsey website, http://www.franchesca.net (August 8, 2018), author profile.
Popsugar, https://www.popsugar.com/ (May 30, 2018), Chelsea Adelaine Hassler, review of Well, That Escalated Quickly.
What’s Good with Stretch & Bobbito, https://www.npr.org/ (September 27, 2017), Robert Garcia and Adrian Bartos, author interview.
Hey there! I’m Franchesca, but most people online know me as Chescaleigh. I’m originally from West Palm Beach, Florida (where your grandparents live) and I’m a writer, actress and video blogger based out of New York City. You might know me as a former writer and contributor for The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore on Comedy Central, but these days you can find me online and as the host of the MTV News web series Decoded.
My “claim to fame” came in January 2012 when my video, “Sh*t White Girls Say…to Black Girls” (SWGSTBG) went viral. It garnered over 1.5 million views in 24 hours and 5 million views in just 5 days. It also made a lot of white girls cry. SWGSTBG currently has 11 million views and has been featured on MSNBC, ABC, The Daily Mail and the Anderson Cooper talk show, to name a few. And someone even wrote a 20 page graduate dissertation on it!
My two Youtube channels have over 250k subscribers combined and over 29 million views. My Chescaleigh comedy channel is a mix of song parodies, impersonations and original characters along with socially conscious and topical comedy sketches. While my Chescalocs channel focuses on beauty, natural hair care and styling. My videos and I have been featured on MTV, The New York Times, NPR, Ebony Magazine and The BBC.
From college campuses to corporate workshops, I’m ready to connect with your audience to help them laugh, learn and think.
As a comedian, video blogger and social media consultant I’m available to speak on a variety of subjects including YouTube, blogging, viral marketing, new media, social justice, using social media responsibly and more.
Why Franchesca Ramsey Is Done Feeding the Trolls
The online phenom on her new memoir, “Well, That Escalated Quickly,” her accidental activism and why she’s taking a step back from the internet.
By Concepción de León
May 10, 2018
“The internet is an actual dumpster fire,” said Franchesca Ramsey to an audience in March, explaining why, though she’s built her career online, she’d been retreating from social media lately. As a woman of color, she said, she dealt with a lot of harassment, and unplugging had been “paramount for my mental health.”
Ms. Ramsey was on stage at Caveat, a Lower East Side speakeasy tucked underground behind a nondescript door and a long set of stairs. She was one of three comics who had been invited to speak on a panel as part of The Box Show, an “intersectional feminist” program run by writer and director Kaitlin Fontana, who had for several years been performing inclusive comedy skits with a multicolored cast. That night’s presentation was The Box Show’s last.
Ms. Ramsey’s work, as a comedian, writer and actress who comments on inequality, is perhaps particularly vulnerable to vitriol — and a new book may expose her to more. In “Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist,” out May 22, she mines her own errors and condenses what she’s learned into a sort of manual on social justice, complete with a glossary of terms like ableism (discrimination against people with disabilities) and ally (someone who defends the rights of marginalized groups to which they do not belong).
Image
CreditSonny Figueroa/The New York Times
Over lunch in early April, she expressed some anxiety over how her book would be received. “I feel very vulnerable,” she said. Ms. Ramsey wore a burnt orange shift dress and a chunky wooden necklace with an abstract black and white pattern. Her signature embellished nails were painted a light pink with a gold glitter edge, a trio of glued-on gems on each of her index fingers.
She’d taken to ignoring her trolls — some of whom have created a host of videos dissecting and disparaging her work and role as a “social justice warrior,” a pejorative term used to describe activists who speak out online — but with the publication of her book, she said, “I know it’s going to ramp back up.”
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Ms. Ramsey, 34, got her start on YouTube, and her big break came in 2012, after her video “Sh_t White Girls Say … To Black Girls” — a parody of the seemingly innocuous but actually offensive comments some white women make when interacting with black women — went viral. In the video, Ms. Ramsey wears a long, platinum blonde wig, and, in scene after scene, her character makes problematic statements such as “Is it, like, bad to do blackface?”The video made Ms. Ramsey an online celebrity, and she pioneered a particular type of content: politically correct, identity focused comedy skits and commentary. In 2015, she signed a deal with MTV to create and host a web show called “Decoded,” now in its sixth season, where she creates similar videos for a broader audience. And her subject matter has expanded to address issues like xenophobia, classism and mental health stigma. In 2016, she also joined the now canceled “Nightly Show With Larry Wilmore” as a writer, bringing her internet expertise to a standing segment called “#HashItOut with Franchesca Ramsey,” where she dissected the Twitter controversy of the moment.
Are Fried Chicken & Watermelon Racist? | Decoded | MTV NewsCreditVideo by MTV News
Though there is a precedent for online creators crossing over to television — “Insecure” creator Issa Rae and “Broad City” stars Ilana Glazer and Abbi Jacobson are standouts — there is no true precedent for Ms. Ramsey; her career built around her like a constellation, with activism as her North Star.
Ms. Fontana, the producer of The Box Show and a collaborator of Ms. Ramsey’s, said Ms. Ramsey has done “what we all wish we could do,” which is “as we get better in terms of technical acumen and writing, and all the parts of the puzzle get sharper, the core of that person’s work and what they believe in stays the same and true to who they are. I think that’s true of her for sure.”
In person, as in her videos, Ms. Ramsey is expressive and animated, often pumping her fist into her hand to punctuate a point or breaking into an impression in the middle of a story, but she pairs this playfulness with biting sarcasm. In the first episode of “Decoded,” for instance — in which she discusses the ramifications of associating black Americans with watermelon and fried chicken — there is an interlude in which she bites into a slice of watermelon, moans and, with a knowing look to the camera, says, “Tastes like oppression.” In another, she plays an instructor at a “race ambassador” training and cheerfully promises to teach the group of people of color to navigate the “brand new, awesome responsibility” of representing an entire culture in their office or neighborhood.
But she also has a sober side. On the panel on mental health in March, she was thoughtful and subdued. She listened more than she spoke, her face relaxed into an expression of concern while one of the other comics joked about the excruciating process of having her eggs frozen. Ms. Ramsey gave career advice, encouraged positive self-talk and offered the audience resources for finding a therapist. Later, when I introduced myself to her, it occurred to me that, though Ms. Ramsey is tall at 5 foot 10 inches, and I am nearly a foot shorter at 5 feet, she bent to my eye level.
“I think it’s just part of my personality,” she said a month later, when we met again on a rainy, blustery day in late April, this time at a nail salon near Union Square. Ms. Ramsey says she inherited her father’s emotional breadth (at the panel in March, she quipped, “My dad’s basically Drake”), and that she often tries to put herself in others’ shoes.
This ability — to empathize even with those who disagree with her — is core to her work. But it’s gotten her some blowback. “I’ve had lots of people say, ‘Oh, Franchesca’s content is just for white people,” she said. “But I try to talk about identity in a way that’s accessible to lots of people and is not a pointed finger,” because “we can’t all wake up and know everything.”
Even before YouTube or Twitter, the internet was kind of Ms. Ramsey’s thing. An only child, she was raised in West Palm Beach, Fla. and exposed to computers early; she took a typing class in the third grade and had a website by the time she was in high school. It was the mid 1990s, and she didn’t own a digital camera, so she’d upload scanned photos to her site and blog about what was going on in her life.
“Every party, I would take pictures at, every play,” she said. “I liked just keeping track of everything. For some reason I just thought it was really cool. And I didn’t care that no one was reading it.”
Image
Ms. Ramsey at home in Brooklyn with her dog, Kaya.CreditMamadi Doumbouya for The New York Times
Ms. Ramsey attended a performing arts high school, and later tried to study acting in college, but found the experience “emotionally abusive” for its insistence that students draw from their most painful memories. She switched to graphic design and worked her way through college doing freelance design. Her senior year, she started dating her now-husband, Patrick Kondas. And in 2009, when he got a scholarship to study law at St. John’s University, they moved to New York, where she tried breaking into the entertainment industry.
“I burned DVDs, and I had a sticker made with my headshot on the disc,” she said, a little mortified, “I sent it out to all these agents, and I was so heartbroken, because I didn’t get one call. I couldn’t get auditions.”
She never thought her YouTube videos, which she used as a creative outlet, would help her career. But they did, and now, Ms. Ramsey may soon be taking her talents back to television. In January, she premiered a pilot at Sundance called “Franchesca,” a short-form docuseries where she explores the intersection of beauty and culture. She also has a comedy sketch show “with an identity focus” in development with Comedy Central. Ms. Ramsey said she wants to do “less educating and more ‘slice of life’ commentary” to showcase her creative range.
Ms. Fontana, who directed “Franchesca,” said about her: “I think she has the potential to be a contemporary Oprah, because there is this dazzling quality to her, but she also seems like a real person that you can hang out with, spend time with, feel like you have a connection to, laugh with and make laugh, and it doesn’t feel like she’s untouchable.”
Do All Muslim Women Wear a Hijab? ft. Fareeha Khan | Decoded | MTVCreditVideo by MTV
When we had lunch, Ms. Ramsey also joked that she’d like to be like Oprah Winfrey — but she pointed to a different aspect of the talk show titan’s personality. “She puts all sorts of people on,” she said, in reference to Ms. Winfrey’s penchant for advancing others’ careers. Ms. Ramsey would like to do the same by helping the next generation of creators in the social justice space. “I want to manage people,” she said, and in recent seasons of “Decoded,” she’s begun inviting other hosts to join her on the show. “The internet has been so good to me; I see its potential to help other people.”
Still, the internet contains a cacophony of voices, said Ms. Ramsey, adding: “If you want to be a creative in any field, at some point you have to stop listening to what everybody else is saying about what you’re doing and just do.” As for the trolls? “Even Beyoncé has haters,” she joked.
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Print Marked Items
Ramsey, Franchesca: WELL, THAT
ESCALATED QUICKLY
Kirkus Reviews.
(Mar. 1, 2018):
COPYRIGHT 2018 Kirkus Media LLC
http://www.kirkusreviews.com/
Full Text:
Ramsey, Franchesca WELL, THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY Grand Central Publishing (Adult Nonfiction)
$27.00 5, 22 ISBN: 978-1-5387-6103-8
The host of MTV's web series Decoded chronicles her difficulties navigating the early days of social media
and her evolution as an advocate for social justice.
Ramsey has a solid media platform: A comedian, actress, and blogger, she was a writer and correspondent
for the Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore and has been featured on NPR, the BBC, and Anderson Cooper
360. With a program in the works with Comedy Central, the author offers her story as an illustration of why,
in today's overheated social and political environment, it is more important than ever to pay close attention
to how we communicate with each other. Early on she admits that she is a product of social media: "I have a
long and complicated history with the internet. I basically grew up online." She built her first website while
still in middle school. By high school, she had purchased her own domain name and began blogging.
Ramsey was an early fan of YouTube and began making videos for fun. "I know the exact date I went from
being a nobody, minding my own business in my corporate retail job," she writes, "to being 'internet
famous'--and inadvertently making a lot of girls cry." That moment came after she posted a video, "Shit
White Girls Say...to Black Girls," which went "super-massive, mainstream-news viral." Ramsey's narrative
is a snappy mix of the funny, sad, and horrifying incidents that have shaped her life, many of which
demonstrate lessons that can apply to a wide variety of modern-day readers. For the unwoke among us,
Ramsey thoughtfully includes "Franchesca's Simple Explanations of Not-So-Simple Concepts," a "socialjustice
glossary" that includes definitions of such terms as "gender binary," "cisgender," "Latinx," and
"Slacktivism."
An admirable exploration of the rapidly morphing boundaries of social mores and online outrage; the author
helpfully points the way toward better communication.
Source Citation (MLA 8th
Edition)
"Ramsey, Franchesca: WELL, THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY." Kirkus Reviews, 1 Mar. 2018. General
OneFile, http://link.galegroup.com/apps/doc/A528959742/ITOF?
u=schlager&sid=ITOF&xid=98fce777. Accessed 15 July 2018.
Gale Document Number: GALE|A528959742
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Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs
and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist
Larua Chanoux
Booklist.
114.14 (Mar. 15, 2018): p6.
COPYRIGHT 2018 American Library Association
http://www.ala.org/aboutala/offices/publishing/booklist/
Full Text:
Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist.
By Franchesca Ramsey.
May 2018. 256p. Grand Central, $27 (9781538761038); e-book, $17.99 (97815387610451. 305.
In 2012, Ramsey's viral video "Sh*t White Girls Say ... to Black Girls" launched her career in media,
pushing her head first into conversations about race, gender, and privilege. For years, she had been making
comedy videos and hair tutorials for YouTube while working as a graphic designer by day. After her video
gained national attention, she received interview requests, secured an agent, and, with more hard work,
began hosting the MTV series Decoded and joined the Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore as a writer and
commentator. Ramsey's memoir chronicles her growth towards activism as she learned more about how
racism and other forms of oppression operate in the U.S. She addresses online call-out culture and offers
guidance on how to effectively talk about often divisive issues. Ramsey's personal stories and lessons
learned provide a window into today's online culture as well as tools for new activists. Regardless of their
level of familiarity with Ramsey's work, readers will enjoy engaging with complex subjects via her frank,
approachable style.--Laura Chanoux
YA: YAs will learn thoughtful approaches to activism both online and in person. LC.
Source Citation (MLA 8th
Edition)
Chanoux, Larua. "Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memoirs and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist."
Booklist, 15 Mar. 2018, p. 6. General OneFile, http://link.galegroup.com/apps/doc/A533094349/ITOF?
u=schlager&sid=ITOF&xid=39a3d698. Accessed 15 July 2018.
Gale Document Number: GALE|A533094349
BGN Book Review: ‘Well, That Escalated Quickly’
By Guest Blogger - April 2, 2018
7/15/2018 BGN Book Review: 'Well, That Escalated Quickly' - Black Girl Nerds
https://blackgirlnerds.com/well-that-escalated-quickly/ 2/3
Most of us were introduced to Franchesca Ramsey by her viral YouTube video “Sh*t White Girls Say to
Black Girls”, but very few people know how this video even came to be. From our side of things, it
seemed that Ramsey was an overnight success, a combination of luck and good timing. Both of these
elements may have played a role, but in her debut book, Well, That Escalated Quickly, Ramsey tells
the story of how much work really went into becoming famous in “four hours”. The reality is, it takes
time and dedication to become a viral sensation and even more of both to parlay that quick fame into
a career.
One thing Ramsey knew for sure was that she didn’t want to simply become known as “the girl with
the wig”. After “SWGSTBG” went viral, she was invited onto various talk shows to discuss the content
of the video. In the book, Ramsey goes into detail about the backlash she was met with from both
white and Black audiences. While she did not yet have all of the language to defend her experiences
with casual racism and macroaggressions, responses to the video made it clear that experiences like
the ones mentioned in her video were too common to remain undiscussed. This is how Franchesca
stumbled into her role as an accidental activist.
Well, That Escalated Quickly is a combination of humorous memories, learning experiences, and
advice not only for navigating the internet but for navigating life with a social justice lens. Ramsey’s
book is as timely and timeless as we are (and probably always will be,) constantly renegotiating how
we use the internet. In a time where half of Twitter seems eager to wield their knowledge as a
weapon and the other half seems dedicated to using their ignorance in the same way, Ramsey’s
advice is relevant and useful, even if you have no interest in becoming a YouTube sensation.
What I like most about Well, That Escalated Quickly is that Ramsey is willing to cop to things that I
think a lot of people, especially people who are dedicated to branding themselves a certain way,
would not. There is a story, for example, of Ramsey’s own accidental performance of transphobia,
which she was called out for and learned from. One of my favorite chapters is “Guess Who’s Coming
to Dinner? (It’s Lena Dunham)”. Ramsey describes meeting the star and creator of the HBO series
“Girls” after critiquing and flat out trash talking her work on the internet. What I loved about this
particular anecdote is that while Ramsey maintains (and I wholeheartedly agree) that there is a lot of
legitimate critique to be made of Dunham and her work, a lot of her criticism and the vitriol behind
the delivery of it stemmed from jealousy. I have never, NEVER, heard anyone admit to being jealous
of Lena Dunham, though there are quite a few people I’m certain are, including myself at one point (I
mean the woman had an HBO series in her twenties…) Being jealous of Beyoncé is socially
acceptable. Being jealous of Lena Dunham is not. I appreciated Ramsey’s transparency here, which
she carried throughout the book.
From the bright smile on the cover that you just have to smile back at to the optimistic tone that runs
throughout Well, That Escalated Quickly, Ramsey manages to deliver a fun and clever read while
discussing difficult topics. There is even a handy glossary of rarely defined words that are commonly
thrown around online.
I think Well, That Escalated Quickly will mostly appeal to readers who are already apart of Ramsey’s
fan base. It is mostly personal, though it can serve as an introduction to some social justice
conversations. As someone who is always curious as to how people get their start or big break in any
category of the entertainment industry, I found this to be a great read. I think Ramsey will have more
wisdom to offer in another ten or fifteen years, but this debut manages to sum up her experiences in
a way that is not just entertaining but can be useful to others who hope to follow in her footsteps.
Kesia Alexandra is a freelance writer from Washington, DC. Her fiction is available on Amazon and
she keeps an online journal at okaykesia.wordpress.com. You can find her on Twitter: @okaykesia.
Franchesca Ramsey's New Book 'Well, That Escalated Quickly' Is A Guide To Being An Online Activist While Protecting Your Own Mental Health
ByKERRI JAREMA
2 months ago
Photo of Franchesca Ramsey, courtesy of Joey Rosado
If you've been around the internet long enough, you've probably heard of Franchesca Ramsey. The social media mainstay and "accidental activist" has graced screens of all sizes since at least 2011, when her YouTube video "Sh*t White Girls Say To Black Girls" went viral. Since then, Ramsey has not only continued to make influential YouTube videos, but she has become a major voice in online activism. But the truth is that Ramsey didn't set out to be either a comedian or an activist — and she's definitely made some mistakes along the way. And now, in her first book Well, That Escalated Quickly, on shelves May 22, Ramsey wants to help all of us avoid the same social media pitfalls in our quests to reclaim our internet space.
After her video went viral to the tune of 12 million views, Ramsey was suddenly faced with an avalanche of media requests, fan letters, and hate mail. And she had two choices: Jump in and make her voice heard or step back and let others frame the conversation. After a crash course in social justice and more than a few foot-in-mouth moments, she realized she had a unique talent and passion for breaking down injustice in America in ways that could make people listen and engage. So she took up her pen and used her own experiences as an accidental internet influencer to explore the many ways we communicate with each other — from the highs of bridging gaps and making connections to the many pitfalls that accompany talking about race, power, sexuality, and gender in an unpredictable public space like the internet.
Well, That Escalated Quickly by Franchesca Ramsey, $18, Amazon
Ramsey writes:
"This book is an attempt to show you that mistakes are invevitable, and that what's actually important is how we use them to make a better world. For all the hate and abuse I get from all points on the political spectrum, I've been fortunate that many people have been compassionate about showing me where I messed up and helping me get back on track. I wanted to pay the generosity forward somehow, and I'm doing it the best way I can: by pulling my own receipts and dragging my former self."
Basically, Ramsey has put together a book that will give you all the tools you need to begin making the most of your online experience in this new age of social media: one in which being "woke" is paramount, but even the most socially conscious person can get caught up in a negative conversations or situations. Chapters range from a super practical guide to when and why to unfollow people on social media — talk about a universally #relatable problem, am I right? — to finding that ever-elusive balance between pointing out problematic behavior without becoming a "callout queen." And all of it is offered without judgement, and with witty writing and hilarious tales of missteps and mistakes.
But more than just a general guide to not being awful on the internet, Ramsey's book is must-read for anyone who wants to dive into online activism, but isn't quite sure how to do it effectively.
Ramsey writes:
"Ultimately, being an activist is going to require way more time and discomfort than it takes to change your Twitter profile pic to a rainbow or put a safety pin on your backpack. These can be great signs of solidarity and support — well, maybe not the safety pin — but they're the bare minimum. You have to take the next steps to getting out of your comfort zone and and commit to continuously working to be a better person and, in turn, making the world a better place...What does this mean, exactly? It's different for everyone."
And by reading Well, That Escalated Quickly, you'll fnd out what it means for you — whether it means finally giving up your obsession with that problematic TV show or figuring out the right way to reach out to your anti-feminist uncle on Facebook. Because, as Ramsey writes, "While it's as important as ever to to hold each them accountable, we also have to remember that everyone's journey is different and takes time. If we want to figure out how to solve this, we have to do it together." And the first step should definitely be reading this illuminating, entertaining book.
The 20 Best New Books to Read in May
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Franchesca Ramsey has made a name for herself through giving the world the "real talk" that we all so desperately need at the exact right time. In Well, That Escalated Quickly: Memories and Mistakes of an Accidental Activist, she explores how she got to be where she is and the things she learned along the way — and, thankfully, Ramsey also provides some advice for how to live your best life in 2018, when every day something else really seems to get in the way.
Out May 22.
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WHAT'S GOOD WITH STRETCH & BOBBITO
< Franchesca Ramsey
September 27, 201712:01 AM ET
29:20
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ROBERT GARCIA, HOST:
Please be advised that the language that you're about to hear in this upcoming podcast may not be suitable for your little kiddies.
FRANCHESCA RAMSEY: I am not the girl who just thinks everything is racist. Like, I think people are like, she's a Debbie downer. Don't invite her anywhere. And I'm like, no, I sometimes say funny things. Like, I'm not just hating on people all the time.
(SOUNDBITE OF JAMES BROWN'S "THE CHASE")
ADRIAN BARTOS, HOST:
Yo, yo, yo. What's up, everybody? This is Stretch Armstrong.
GARCIA: And my name is Bobbito Garcia aka Kool Bob Love.
BARTOS: Welcome to WHAT'S GOOD WITH STRETCH & BOBBITO, your source for untold stories and uncovered truths from movers and shakers around the world.
GARCIA: Our guest today is Franchesca Ramsey. She got her start making natural hair tutorials. And now, she's a YouTube star with a Comedy Central pilot in the works. Well, Stretch, before we get to all that, let's talk about your hair when I first met you.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTOS: Can we not?
GARCIA: Please.
BARTOS: Oh, boy. Listen. Enough time has passed by where I'm totally fine talking about the ridiculous haircut I had when we met.
GARCIA: You had long, beautiful hair...
BARTOS: My hair was long.
GARCIA: ...Shining gleaming, steaming, flaxen, waxen.
BARTOS: Yo, I got a photograph of me. My hair is long and curly and it goes down to my shoulders. And I got a photo of me with that haircut rocking a shearling.
GARCIA: (Laughter) Oh.
BARTOS: Yo, it's so hectic. So yeah, so that's what I looked like when we became friends. And...
GARCIA: And then I boriquafied (ph) you.
BARTOS: Yeah. You were Bobbito the barber. I was like, yo, let me get - I was like all right, listen, I got a - listen, I'm officially hip-hop now.
GARCIA: That was like, you know, like if someone was starving and you offered them like a Thanksgiving feast or something. Like, I saw your hair and I was like, oh, my God, please let me cut your hair.
BARTOS: Yeah. And what did you do? What'd you give me? You gave me the Caesar.
GARCIA: I gave you the Caesars. I hooked you up. You know what? I...
BARTOS: Now, at the time, I didn't realize it, but in hindsight, the Caesar is - that's the standard haircut for white guys that are down in hip-hop.
GARCIA: (Laughter).
BARTOS: I guess - I mean, they all have the same haircut.
GARCIA: Part two of me giving you the first haircut of our friendship was that (laughter) you fell asleep afterwards. I don't know if you remember this. You took a nap in your living room when you were living out on Hudson Street.
BARTOS: Yeah, I was so sad.
GARCIA: I swept up all your long hair and I put it in a salad bowl and then I placed it in your refrigerator (laughter). Do you remember that?
BARTOS: Yes.
GARCIA: And then I left your house. And then five hours later, you were like, yo, Bob, WTF, man?
(LAUGHTER)
GARCIA: That was my homage to your hair.
GARCIA: Thanks, Bob.
GARCIA: Anyway, coming up next - Franchesca Ramsey.
(SOUNDBITE OF BETTY FORD BOYS' "THE SYMPHONY (JEEP VOLUME)")
BARTOS: Joining us now is the incredible Franchesca Ramsey.
GARCIA: Our guest today got her start making content for YouTube in 2012. She rocked the video world with "Shit White Girls Say To Black Girls," which now has close to 12 million views on YouTube. Since then, she went on to write for and contribute to "The Nightly Show With Larry Wilmore." She hosts MTV News' "Decoded," a show where she talks race, stereotypes, media and pop culture. Recently, she's been working on a pilot for Comedy Central. (Speaking Spanish).
(APPLAUSE)
RAMSEY: Oh, yay.
BARTOS: Word up, up, up, up. Franchesca, welcome.
RAMSEY: Thank you for having me.
GARCIA: Oh, come on.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTOS: So before we get into all the video work you've done, let's talk about what we've got in common - podcasts.
RAMSEY: Yay.
GARCIA: Yes.
BARTOS: It's called "Last Name Basis," which you do with your husband, Patrick.
RAMSEY: I sure do.
BARTOS: Now, Patrick happens to be white. And on this show...
GARCIA: What?
RAMSEY: I know. I know.
BARTOS: ...You tackle...
RAMSEY: Are you like, get her off the show now? I've been lied to. You think of me differently. I knew it.
GARCIA: God help me. Good. We're good.
RAMSEY: God, I should have kept that on the DL.
BARTOS: Well, if you knew more about my personal life and Bob's, well, you'd know that we're all sort of in the same boat.
RAMSEY: Oh, OK. Cool.
GARCIA: Franchesca, you know Stretch is white, right?
RAMSEY: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
RAMSEY: I mean, listen. There are some white people who are very unhappy that I am in an interracial relationship. Like, I don't know, you know what I mean? Like, this could be some sort of gotcha moment. So I don't know.
BARTOS: That's actually why we have you here.
GARCIA: All my Puerto Rican friends are very happy that I have a white partner on this podcast.
RAMSEY: Aw, that's sweet.
BARTOS: I thought you were going to say a white wife. I was like, what?
(LAUGHTER)
RAMSEY: Other kind of partner, not the romantic partner.
GARCIA: Right, right.
BARTOS: So in the podcast, you have complicated conversations around difficult issues including race. So can you share with us what you're trying to do with this podcast?
RAMSEY: I mean, for Pat and I, we have so many great conversations where we disagree on different topics and then we start to see eye to eye. You know, my husband is a lawyer. And he has always been someone who's been very analytical and fair-minded, whereas I am very emotional.
I'm always like, kill that bitch. And he's like, legally, she didn't do anything wrong. And I'm like, just agree with me. I hate her. So it's really fun for us to talk about all sorts of stuff. Like, we do talk about politics. And we talk about pop culture. But we also talk about science, you know. And sometimes, he sees things...
GARCIA: She blinded me with science.
RAMSEY: (Laughter) I'm, like, not a science person at all. So yeah, it's great. I mean, we don't necessarily go into every episode with a specific goal in mind other than to just talk about things that we think are interesting or things that - sometimes we'll have a disagreement and we'll just be like, save it for the podcast. We're not even going to have this argument right now. Let's do it on the show.
BARTOS: Wow. Amazing.
GARCIA: Wow. That's tough. That's really tough.
RAMSEY: And it's great because - it's - I love it. It's been...
GARCIA: Put that on pause, honey. We're going to talk about that tomorrow.
RAMSEY: Yes. Yes. Save it. But like, we do it real shaded. We're like, save it for the podcast, OK? Just save it.
BARTOS: With the hand, five fingers in the face.
RAMSEY: Yes. So yeah, it's really fun. And I think what our audience really enjoys about is that, you know, Patrick does bring a different perspective to some topics. And I enjoy hearing that just in the sense that, you know, I am very emotional. And I think that's because when we talk about race, for me, a lot of these things are things that I have dealt with, you know, personally or impact people that I know.
And so Pat's not the time to play devil's advocate, but he tries to come from a perspective of like, well, let me just tell you how I would see the situation or I can understand why someone might see it differently. And that's been really eye-opening for me.
BARTOS: Shoutout to Pat.
RAMSEY: Yes.
GARCIA: Well, I'm going to shout out my wife - right? - because I told her that I was interviewing you with Stretch on our podcast. And she said, what? Turns out, years ago, she was putting your videos on to her best friend...
RAMSEY: Oh, that's so cool.
GARCIA: ...On some natural hair tutorials.
RAMSEY: Oh, yeah.
GARCIA: So - yeah. No, real talk.
RAMSEY: That's awesome.
GARCIA: Yeah, it is. And so what lessons did you learn from those videos, in those early YouTube days, that you're applying today?
RAMSEY: I think just perseverance and really staying focused. There was a long stretch of time where I was making these videos and everyone just thought I was a weirdo because I was making videos in my apartment instead of like going out, you know. And so I, like, it's hilarious now because everyone gets YouTube now. But, you know, in 2006, when I started making videos, like no. That was not the thing, you know. And so it was not what it is
today. And so sometimes you have to be able to carve your own path and not worry if other people don't get it. If it's something that you love, stay focused and dedicated to it. And, you know, what happens for you will happen when it's supposed to.
GARCIA: So what was the spark for you to be like, you know what, I'll...
BARTOS: I'm going to be that weirdo at home making videos.
RAMSEY: Well, you know what's really funny with the - I started making - started out with hair videos. So I have locks. I've had locks for 14 years now. And when I started them, you know, the natural hair space was not what it is now. There was no team natural. Nobody knew what hair type they were. Like, you couldn't go - there was no natural hair section in the store. And so I turned to the Internet and I joined a hair forum called Get Up Dread Up, where I was one of like three black people. It was all white people.
BARTOS: Stop. Stop.
RAMSEY: And I was like, so how do I do - what are y'all are doing? And I was always - like, the girl who was like the moderator of the forum, she and I were always butting heads - always. So I'd be like...
BARTOS: So this is a forum where there are tutorials by white people to other white people on how to get dreads?
RAMSEY: Yeah. It was on LiveJournal, old-school Internet. I think it's still around. And a lot of those people are still my audience, which is so interesting to me. They've followed me from Get Up Dread Up to YouTube and wherever else. And so I was on this forum. And I was very frustrated by the fact that, you know, I was not getting the kind of advice that - I was doing a lot of trial and error. And I was not using the products that these people were using. I didn't have the same maintenance routines.
And so I was like, you know what? Screw this. I'm starting my own shit. And so I started making videos because I was trying stuff and people were liking it, and they wanted to know how I was doing it. So that's really what inspired me to start making videos. And then once I started getting into comedy, my channel expanded and kind of changed shape as I - as my interest kind of grew.
BARTOS: So what's your current advice for white people that want dreads?
(LAUGHTER)
RAMSEY: Oh, my God. Find a channel that's all about that 'cause it's not mine. That's not what I'm into. I totally understand why there are people - black people specifically - who really do not fuck with white people that have dreads. Like, I get it in the sense that there's a lot of stereotypes and misunderstandings of what locks are. And that's, for me, a big part of why I call them locks. I'm like, there's nothing dreadful about my hair. Y'all can keep that word.
And so a lot of times, people are projecting unfair stereotypes about our hair based on what white people are doing with their hair, that it's smelly and that we don't wash it. I mean, locks are, in many ways, the most natural state for black hair to be in, so I don't have to do backcombing and all this other shit in order to have my hair in this way. So personally, I'm not upset by it, but I get why other people are. And again, that's why I'm like, that's not what I'm doing. So I'm not bothered by whatever that is. Those are not locks (laughter).
BARTOS: Baboom (ph). So can you tell us a little bit about "Decoded"?
RAMSEY: Yeah. So it's a series about race, identity and the intersection of pop culture. And it's part sketch and then part me in the studio, straight to camera, literally decoding certain ideas and concepts around race and identity.
GARCIA: I watched an episode about the very long process one has to go through to receive a U.S. green card.
RAMSEY: Oh, my goodness.
GARCIA: Yeah. I was bugging. I mean, you know, I have friends who have come to the United States from outside and have mentioned like, yeah, I've been waiting, but they never really went through the A to Z in the way that you did.
RAMSEY: It's a long process. And the thing is, is like, we cut steps out of that just in the interest of time.
GARCIA: Couldn't fit it all in five minutes?
RAMSEY: No. We try to keep our episodes short but, I mean, you know, there's been so much conversation around undocumented immigrants. And, you know, there clearly, in my mind, needs to be a change in the process because it is really difficult for people who want to be citizens legally.
And it's also super expensive. You know, it's prohibitive to people who are coming from countries where they genuinely need to be here in order to have a life that is going to be productive and do the things that they want to do. And then we're like, OK, jump through all these hoops and spend all of this money in order to get here. So the system needs to be tweaked, and that's why we wanted to make that episode.
BARTOS: Moni (ph) lost her wallet last week - my lady.
RAMSEY: OK.
BARTOS: And it costs $500 to replace a green card.
RAMSEY: I had no idea.
BARTOS: You didn't add that in - you didn't include that in this particular clip, but that's bananas.
RAMSEY: Yeah. That is ridiculous.
BARTOS: So.
GARCIA: That's a costly loss of a wallet.
BARTOS: She found her wallet.
GARCIA: Oh, she did?
RAMSEY: Good.
BARTOS: Yes.
GARCIA: After paying the 500?
BARTOS: No, no, no, no.
RAMSEY: No. I'm sure she was like, no, it's $500? Oh, we're going to find this wallet.
BARTOS: Plus time.
RAMSEY: The wallet will be found.
BARTOS: Although you know found her wallet was a Mexican from a taco stand?
RAMSEY: Oh. Well, I'm sure there's somebody whose, like, brain is exploding hearing that. That's like the intro of a really bad joke, like...
GARCIA: So listen. I learned a ton from "Decoded." I'm wondering, what episode did you learn the most from?
RAMSEY: We've done...
GARCIA: Uh-oh. Wait. Stretch, I think we hit a good question.
(LAUGHTER)
RAMSEY: Yeah. I mean, we - to my credit, we have like over 65 episodes, so that's a lot to try and think back on. But we did a really great episode about the strange - well, no, my favorite one was like weird Asian sexual stereotypes about where the, like, small Asian penis stereotype comes from. Yeah, it was really eye-opening because it's one of those stereotypes that gets trotted out especially in comedy like so often.
But it was really interesting to learn about the laws in this country that actually prohibited Asians from marrying white women and that, like, the stereotype of them being like these sexual provocateurs.
And so basically, once they created these laws that they couldn't get married, then they were prohibited from taking certain jobs at the time. So they were relegated to more feminine roles like laundry and restaurants, which then, like, perpetuated this idea that they could not, like, satisfy a woman and they were, like, womanly. So it was just a strange history when you realize like, oh, this trope that is used to be funny has a serious history that is super racist and really hurtful.
GARCIA: Wow.
RAMSEY: And so it's very eye-opening for me. And so those are the episodes that we're like, oh, damn, people are going to love this. I didn't know this thing, and this is really interesting and super shareable for that reason.
BARTOS: Do you think - as a woman of color, do you think that you would find yourself in the entertainment industry if it wasn't for YouTube and Twitter, if those didn't exist?
RAMSEY: I mean, there are a lot of really successful black women and women of color in entertainment that I look up to that did not use YouTube, but I do think the thing that's really cool about social media and YouTube specifically is that it's really removed a lot of the gatekeepers. Not everybody can move to New York. Not everyone can move to LA. Not everybody has the interest or the ability to do that, whether it's the financial ability or the physical ability.
You know, if you are a person with a disability but you still want to be in the entertainment industry, you know, you can make content at home from your bedroom on your own time, you know, and make it accessible to people around the world. And you don't need an agent. You don't need to go on auditions. And I think that that's really cool. And for me, that's why YouTube was just so awesome and exciting because I didn't see myself in the roles I was getting called in for. So I just started casting myself in my own work.
GARCIA: Boom. Is mainstream success a priority amongst all these other goals?
RAMSEY: I feel like the word mainstream is kind of weird in the sense that it's so relative. For me, like, my goal has never been, quote, unquote, "mainstream success." I've just always wanted to work in entertainment. And I knew that I had something that I wanted to say. I didn't always know what it was, but I was like, I have thoughts and someone needs to hear them. Which has not stopped anyone from being successful. So, you know, for me, I always wanted to just create things that could hopefully make people laugh and make them think. And so if I'm able to do that on a bigger scale, be that television or movies or, you know, of course with my book, that's awesome.
But YouTube has been so incredible to me, just the audience that I've built there, the friends that I've made, the relationship that I have with YouTube themselves has been really cool for me. And so as long as I'm able to continue making things that I feel proud of, I'm happy if millions of people are watching it. But I'm happy if like five people and my mom are watching it. So for me, I try to tell creators of all backgrounds that you should do it because you love it, not because you have some ultimate goal that you're going to be rich and famous because that is fleeting and doesn't always happen.
GARCIA: You're working on a new pilot. Let me rephrase that. You're executive producing a new pilot for late night on Comedy Central.
RAMSEY: I am. I am. You know, "MTV Decoded" has been such an incredible experience. And actually, the producers that I developed and sold the show to Comedy Central with are the same guys that produced "Decoded." So we work together really well. We've been working together for a long time, but we want to stretch ourselves and do something different because this is not "Decoded" and this is not MTV.
So, you know, Comedy Central is comedy first, so we're really excited to kind of push some boundaries and hopefully show people sides of me that they have not seen. You know, I've done a lot of characters. I've done standup. I am not the girl who just thinks everything is racist. Like, I I think people are like, she's a Debbie downer. Don't invite her anywhere. And I'm like, no, I sometimes say funny things. Like, I'm not just hating on people all the time.
So I'm excited in that respect. But yeah, also just the chance to do something different that people are not seeing on television. Like, I don't plan on being at a desk with a blazer on. You know, I have been lifting a lot of weights and I would like to show off my arms. So I do not plan on being all buttoned-up and doing, like, news satire. That's just not my style. And also, like, a lot of people are doing that right now and they're doing it very well. But I want to do something different, so I'm excited. We're going to try and push some boundaries and hopefully see what happens.
GARCIA: So you were a part of Women's Health Magazine September 2017 issue where you talk about how you had to learn to be nice to yourself and it inspired you to combat anxiety through fitness.
RAMSEY: Yes.
GARCIA: What would you say to younger Franchesca in those moments when you did struggle with body image?
RAMSEY: Oh, my goodness. I would say to younger Franchesca - every woman has lopsided boobies. It's not a big deal. I was like - I mean, I talked about this in Women's Health. I was so stressed out over the fact that one of my boobs is slightly bigger than the other. And real talk, it is something that every single woman - like no one is perfectly symmetrical in any part of their body.
GARCIA: Of course not. My left ear is way bigger than my right ear. It's bugging me for like decades.
BARTOS: How does Pat feel?
RAMSEY: Pat doesn't care. Pat is like, I love the little boob. Like, he has like an - he talks about both of them very positively. I would tell younger Franchesca - do not stress. You know, it's - a lot of the things that I thought were so important and, you know, made me so uncomfortable and I just cried hours and hours over are just not a big deal now. And I think that that's not just about our own bodies.
That's about, you know, our careers, our relationships, where we are financially. There are so many times in our lives where we just stress out about something. And then you need just like time and perspective to realize like, oh, that was really not as serious as I thought it was.
GARCIA: That's beautiful. Listen. Up next, it's time for the Impression Session.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BARTOS: It's time for the Impression Session.
GARCIA: Stretch, we didn't give the trumpet (imitating trumpet).
BARTOS: Bong, bong. Symphony drums. Bong, bong, bong, bong, bong, bong.
RAMSEY: I'm excited for this because I don't know what's going to happen.
GARCIA: All right. So here's how it works. What we're going to do is we're each going to play you a song. We're not going to tell you what it is. You just - all you have to do is just listen, digest it, and whatever emotion it evokes out of you, share it.
BARTOS: Doesn't have to be an emotion, can be a thought.
RAMSEY: OK, great.
BARTOS: Anything, whatever you want to say about it.
GARCIA: It could be a memory. Maybe you recognize a song, doesn't matter if you know it or not.
RAMSEY: OK.
GARCIA: It's not a test to see your musical knowledge. Yeah. Stretch, you want to go first or you want me to go first? I have no idea what you're playing, by the way, Stretch.
BARTOS: Yeah, I'll go first.
GARCIA: OK. Cool.
BARTOS: This is me going first.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WHITE BOYS")
NELL CARTER: (Singing) White boys are so pretty, skin as smooth as milk. White boys are so pretty, hair like Chinese silk.
BARTOS: She's like, hold on.
RAMSEY: (Laughter) Oh, my gosh. I...
BARTOS: Do you know what this is?
RAMSEY: No, I don't.
BARTOS: Are you horrified?
RAMSEY: I am so horrified.
BARTOS: So that's a song from the musical "Hair."
RAMSEY: Oh, I...
GARCIA: Which was also a film, which was also a film.
BARTOS: That's right. Sorry. That's from the motion picture soundtrack from 1979.
RAMSEY: Oh, that's so funny.
GARCIA: But it was originally a Broadway musical.
RAMSEY: Yeah. No, I know "Hair" the musical, but I didn't - I don't - I have not seen it, so that's really interesting to me. I thought it was ironic because it was like this funk style.
BARTOS: Faux funk. That was not funky (laughter).
RAMSEY: But, I mean, it was like - yeah, it was like a watered-down version of funk but it was singing about white boys.
BARTOS: Elevator funk.
RAMSEY: I don't know. I have the - I have like this impression in my mind that like that's what goes through, like, white guys' heads when they, like, need to hype themselves up for like a meeting or something.
(LAUGHTER)
RAMSEY: They're like, I'm going to nail this presentation. And it's like (singing) white boys are so cool - in their mind, like, as they walk through the office. I don't know. I can't - I will check in with my husband and see if that plays in his mind because it's just so over the top and weird. I don't know. It was very...
BARTOS: Well, it is a Broadway musical.
RAMSEY: Right, but like, I had no context. This is my first impression. I feel like a bad theater student for not having watched "Hair," but I'm not a big musical theater person. But I definitely need to watch that.
BARTOS: Well, it's funny because that's a soundtrack that my sister and I knew by heart, the whole thing. And we'd actually...
GARCIA: Stretch, I never knew that about you.
BARTOS: Well you don't know everything about me, Bob, my partner.
GARCIA: I love that soundtrack.
BARTOS: I was saying to someone the other day, I said, someone needs to make a 2017 "Hair."
RAMSEY: Put it out there in the universe. Maybe someone will do it. Maybe it'll be you.
BARTOS: (Laughter).
RAMSEY: Do it. Follow your dreams.
BARTOS: Bob, is that our next project?
GARCIA: I think so. All right. So we're going to play you another song, Franchesca. And thank you for being so wonderful and listening with us. Enjoy this. At any point, you can talk over it or you can listen to it and just let us know.
RAMSEY: OK.
BARTOS: You can make a face of horror.
GARCIA: Yeah, you can let us know.
BARTOS: Again.
RAMSEY: I was so confused during that last one.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "1960 WHAT?")
GREGORY PORTER: (Singing) Ain't no need for streetlights 'cause it's burning real bright. Some folks say we're going to fight 'cause this here thing just ain't right. 1960, what? 1960, who? 1960, what? 1960, who?
RAMSEY: OK. Now you have to tell me who that is because now I need to listen to that.
GARCIA: Yes. It's - the artist is Gregory Porter. The title of the song is "1960 What?" - he's a phenomenal jazz singer. And it is chilling to listen to the entire song...
RAMSEY: Wow.
GARCIA: ...And hear the lyrics and just the - I mean, in light of Black Lives Matter, in particular, and the incidents that have sparked that movement and then to hear this song, it's just - I don't know.
RAMSEY: It's interesting because even in retrospect before I heard the lyrics, like, it is unfortunately, like, a soundtrack to just, like, daily life and what's going on in the world around us, you know. So the actual music and like the instrumentation was really powerful. So, I mean, it was - again, hearing those lyrics, they definitely matched the tone that was set by the instruments. So that was really, really cool. I can't wait to listen to that.
BARTOS: Bob, you put me up on that record and thank you. I love that. The remix is type hot.
GARCIA: Yeah (laughter).
RAMSEY: You dropped all types of gems of things that I need to watch and listen to. And I am ready to do some homework.
GARCIA: Oh, cool. Well, you can check out our podcast on npr.com/whatsgood.
(LAUGHTER)
BARTOS: Amazing. Well, Bob, you got anything else?
GARCIA: No, I think that's it.
BARTOS: That's Franchesca Ramsey - comedian, actress and online personality. Franchesca, thanks so much.
RAMSEY: Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun.
GARCIA: (Speaking Spanish). That means thanks for coming.
RAMSEY: I was like, what did you say about my mother?
(LAUGHTER)
RAMSEY: Thank you. Thank you. I was getting a little - didn't know if I was going to be happy about that. Thank you for translating.
RAMSEY: Later.
GARCIA: All right.
(SOUNDBITE OF BETTY FORD BOYS' "THE SYMPHONY (JEEP VOLUME)")
BARTOS: That's it for us. This podcast was produced by Sami Yenigun, Jessica Diaz-Hurtado and Micaela Rodriguez. Our editors are Steve Nelson and N'Jeri Eaton. And our executive producer is Abby O'Neal.
GARCIA: Bong, bong. Special thanks to our VP of programming, Anya Grundmann.
BARTOS: If you like the show, you should listen to our interviews with Regina King and Run the Jewels. Listen on Apple Podcasts, NPR One or wherever you get your podcasts.
GARCIA: Boom. See you.
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