SATA
ENTRY TYPE:
WORK TITLE: A Copycat Conundrum
WORK NOTES:
PSEUDONYM(S):
BIRTHDATE:
WEBSITE:
CITY: Pasadena
STATE:
COUNTRY: United States
NATIONALITY: American
LAST VOLUME: SATA 389
RESEARCHER NOTES:
PERSONAL
Born 1975, in Brooklyn, NY; son of Adam and Nancy Santat; married, wife’s name Leah (a scientist); children: Alek, Kyle.
EDUCATION:University of California, San Diego, B.S. (microbiology); ArtCenter College of Design, degree (with honors), 2001.
ADDRESS
CAREER
Author and illustrator. Worked as a texture artist, 3-D modeler, and concept art designer for video games, 2001-04; creator of animated cartoon The Replacements, Disney Channel, 2006-08. Exhibitions: Work included in Original Art Show, Society of Illustrators, New York, NY, 2004, 2007, 2010.
AVOCATIONS:Making furniture.
MEMBER:Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators.
AWARDS:Don Freeman Memorial Grant-in-Aid finalist, Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI); first prize, juried art portfolio display, SCBWI Los Angeles Conference, 2002; Marion Vannett Ridgeway Honor Award, 2005, for The Guild of Geniuses; 100 Titles for Reading and Sharing inclusion, New York Public Library, 2008, for The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch by Anne Isaacs; Best Children’s Books selection, Bank Street College of Education, 2009, for The Christmas Genie by Dan Gutman; Silver Medal, Society of Illustrators, 2010, for Oh No!; Children’s Choice Book Awards finalist, Children’s Book Council, 2012, for Sidekicks; Caldecott Medal, 2015, for The Adventures of Beekle; National Book Award for Young People’s Literature, 2023, for A First Time for Everything.
WRITINGS
Author of comic strip “The Contender.” Contributor to Comics Squad: Recess!, edited by Jennifer L. Holm, Matthew Holm, and Jarrett J. Krosoczka, Random House (New York, NY), 2014.
Are We There Yet? was adapted as a CD/book package, Hachette Audio, 2016.
SIDELIGHTS
Dan Santat is an illustrator and cartoonist well known for dynamic and often droll contributions to dozens of children’s books, including his own self-illustrated works. Santat’s mixed-media illustrations often incorporate acrylics, watercolors, pen and ink, and digital elements, and they have attracted critical praise. He has collaborated with noteworthy authors including Dav Pilkey, Suzanne Selfors, Minh Lê, and Mo Willems, along with the occasional celebrity writers, like Henry Winkler and Jake Gyllenhaal. In 2015 he was honored with a prestigious Caldecott Medal for his self-illustrated picture book The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend. [open new]Less than a decade later he earned another major honor, the National Book Award for Young People’s Literature, for his graphic memoir A First Time for Everything.
Santat was born in Brooklyn in 1975 to parents who had immigrated from Thailand seven years earlier. When he was three, they moved to California, where he grew up in a mostly white rural town. Since his parents viewed reading as something practical, undertaken to learn subjects like science, rather than recreational, he had little interest in books. He did enjoy reading comics like Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes, and he loved TV and movies—although in the 1980s he rarely saw Asian American characters outside of kung fu films and supporting roles as comic relief. When a friend showed him a trunk full of comic books like The Avengers, X-Men, and Spider-Man, he was at once fascinated by the form and the months-long unspooling of plot lines. Money earned delivering newspapers on his bicycle enabled him to start his own collection. He told Michele Kirichanskaya of Geeks Out, “It felt like a good balance between the marriage of reading and cinema and I started making my own little comics.” Attending comic conventions, he began purchasing bootlegged copies of Japanese anime films that inspired him to dream of becoming an animator.
His parents, meanwhile, envisioned him becoming a doctor, and when he reached high school, they signed him up for Advanced Placement and SAT prep courses to propel him in that direction. Santat duly earned a degree in microbiology at the University of California, San Diego, and moreover gained acceptance to dental school. He was on the verge of going, as he explained to Bianca Schulze of the Children’s Book Review: “And then, at the last minute, all my college roommates knew that I had a passion for art and convinced me to just try to apply to art school just to see if I could get in. And that really was the hook.” Santat ended up attending Pasadena’s ArtCenter College of Design, where frustration with the painstaking process of computer animation left him leaning toward a career in creating children’s books. After graduation in 2001 and a few years of work as an artist, modeler, and designer for video games, he published his first book.[suspend new]
Santat served as both author and illustrator for The Guild of Geniuses, his debut picture book, which transports young readers into a futuristic fantasy world. In his story, a monkey named Mr. Pip finds what he thinks is the perfect gift for his best friend, Frederick Lipton, a famous actor accustomed to the finer things in life. As Mr. Pip watches a succession of lavish gifts being presented to Frederick during the birthday celebration, he goes glum with worry that his gift does not reflect the depth of their friendship. Meanwhile, Frederick is concerned about his monkey friend’s down mood and takes Mr. Pip to the Guild of Geniuses in order to find out what is wrong.
Reviewing The Guild of Geniuses in Booklist, Ilene Cooper proclaimed that Santat “creates a fabulous world filled with kitschy delights–from spaceships and turntables to cycle-riding bears. And that’s just on one spread.” Blair Christolon noted in School Library Journal that Santat’s artwork, with its “varying perspectives and bold colors, keeps the action moving quickly.” A Kirkus Reviews writer affirmed that “children will chuckle over the urbane visual humor in this promising debut.”
In his graphic novel Sidekicks, Santat offers “a vibrant volume sure to zoom, pow and swoosh its way into the hands (and hearts) of young superhero fans,” noted a Kirkus Reviews critic. When an aging Captain Amazing realizes that he needs an assistant to help with his crime-fighting duties, he auditions his pets to fill the role. A rivalry soon emerges involving Roscoe the dog, Manny the cat, Fluffy the hamster, and Shifty the chameleon, but when their owner’s arch-enemy commits a foul deed, they join forces to set things right. “Santat … cleverly uses the action to highlight the importance of smarts over simple brawn,” Jesse Karp noted in Booklist, and Horn Book contributor Jonathan Hunt commended “the appealing, cartoonish artwork with bold geometric shapes and bright primary colors.”
The Adventures of Beekle was inspired by the birth of Santat’s first child. Beekle lives on an island where imaginary friends wait for a child to dream them into existence. Passed over time and again, Beekle embarks on a journey to the real world where he still goes unnoticed by the harried masses. Arriving at a playground, Beekle encounters a young girl who carries with her a special picture that cements their friendship. “Pithy writing combines with the rich, slightly stylized illustrations … to give an elegant edge to the storytelling,” wrote Jeannette Hulick in the Bulletin of the Center for Children’s Books. Mary Elam also praised the volume in School Library Journal, remarking that “Santat’s attention to detail in the mixed-media illustrations shares a child’s eye for laughter and movement on full-bleed spreads with strategically placed text.”
A familiar childhood experience—having to endure a seemingly never-ending car ride—is the focus of Santat’s Are We There Yet? As a youngster grows increasingly bored during a trip to Grandma’s house, he lets his imagination run wild, picturing his family’s vehicle traveling through history, from the Wild West to medieval Europe to the age of the dinosaurs. A clever page design—readers must rotate the book as the story progresses—drew praise from several critics, as did Santat’s mixed-media artwork. “Employing both comic-book-style panels and full-bleed spreads, the … illustrations are full of humor, and the changes in point of view keep the telling dynamic and engaging,” concluded a Kirkus Reviews critic.
After the Fall: How Humpty Dumpty Got Back Up Again continues the fairy tale of Humpty Dumpty. In Santat’s version, Humpty must face his fear of heights in order to rescue his beloved paper airplane. “This book is absolutely beautiful,” asserted Julianne Black in Story Monsters Ink. A writer in Publishers Weekly commented: “Santat’s story speaks boldly to the grip of fear and trauma, and to the exhilaration of mastering it.” A Kirkus Reviews critic described the book as “a validating and breathtaking next chapter of a Mother Goose favorite.” Reviewing the work in BookPage, Julie Danielson suggested: “Santat avoids heavy-handedness and communicates a lot with color, light and perspective.”
Harold & Hog Pretend for Real! finds Santat revisiting two beloved characters of children’s book author and illustrator Mo Willems: Piggie and Gerald. The titular Harold, an elephant, and Hog, a pig, pretend to be Gerald and Piggie. A Kirkus Reviews writer remarked: “Santat creates yet another early reader that is at once playful, self-aware, and perceptive in its exploration of the differences of personalities.”
Santat wrote and illustrated The Aquanaut, a book for young readers that teaches about commercialization. After a marine research vessel sinks into the ocean, some sea creatures–a hermit crab, two octopuses, and a sea turtle–commandeer a diving suit and crawl up on land to explore the nearby city of San Diego. They find the Aqualand rescue institute, free a whale and giant squid, and contend with a greedy investor who wants to make Aqualand a theme park. “Kinetic panel artwork impresses throughout, with smart pacing that swings between hilarity and suspense,” declared a Publishers Weekly contributor. A Kirkus Reviews critic reported: “Santat’s vividly expressive visuals are, even more than usual, riveting.”
[resume new]Santat portrays a transformative time in his life with his National Book Award–winning graphic memoir A First Time for Everything. The book was inspired partly by his elder son, at age thirteen, asking him about the first time he fell in love; and partly by encouragement from fellow author-illustrator Gene Luen Yang, whose graphic memoir American Born Chinese was a book that, as Santat told Schulze, “just spoke to my soul.” In 1989, thirteen-year-old Dan Santat’s life clouds over when having to read an A.A. Milne poem at a school assembly leaves him choking up and humiliated before his peers. When eighth grade is over, he is pessimistic in being sent to Europe on a three-week exchange program, expecting awkwardness around the girls from his school and soon enduring a broken camera. But a new crush, Amy, turns out to be the first girl he kisses. Meanwhile he enjoys exultant experiences like wandering freely around Paris; joining girls at a discotheque in Salzburg before commandeering an unlocked bicycle to get home late at night; and sneaking into the Wimbledon semifinal. Santat confided to Kirichanskaya of Geeks Out, “It was a life changing trip for me after a rough couple of years in junior high. I discovered who I was as a person and learned to like myself.”
With blue-toned flashbacks filling out the full-color narrative, a Kirkus Reviews proclaimed that Santat “creates the perfect balance of humor and poignancy” in this “entertaining … relatable story of self-discovery.” The reviewer praised A First Time for Everything as a “pivotal adventure … full of laughter and sentiment.”[suspend new]
Through the illustrations he created for actress Rhea Perlman’s six-volume “Otto Undercover” series, Santat established his reputation in the world of children’s publishing. In Publishers Weekly a reviewer remarked of series opener Born to Drive that the artist’s “brash cartoons add to” the humorous tone of Perlman’s high-action story.
In Barbara Jean Hicks’s The Secret Life of Walter Kitty —a picture-book nod to James Thurber’s short story “The Secret Life of Walter Mitty”—a mild-mannered but wildly imaginative housecat pictures itself as a fearless adventurer, a razor-toothed wildcat, a swashbuckling pirate, and other extraordinary characters in turn. Santat’s cartoon-like art “juxtaposes these energetic caricatures with prosaic images of Walter grooming or tracking mud across the linoleum,” noted a Publishers Weekly reviewer. In The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch, a tall tale by Anne Isaacs, Santat’s acrylic paintings for the story “capture the flavor of the Wild West and are appropriately exaggerated to complement the extraordinary events,” a critic in Kirkus Reviews observed.
A barnyard talent show offers excitement aplenty in Chicken Dance, a story by Tammi Sauer. With tickets to an Elvis Poultry concert on the line, coop-mates Marge and Lola bravely take the stage, despite the fact that these hens lack any semblance of talent. In the words of Booklist reviewer Kay Weisman, “Santat’s computer-enhanced acrylic-and-ink artwork comically extends Sauer’s droll text” for Chicken Dance, and a Publishers Weekly critic wrote that the pictures “exude an old-fashioned, theatrical drama that lifts the many jokes—visual and textual—into sublime silliness.”
In Rodzilla, a picture book by Rob Sanders, Santat depicts an unruly toddler as a Godzilla-like creature spreading chaos in his wake. According to a contributor to Publishers Weekly, “Santat’s exuberant, richly colored spreads pour on the mayhem.” A pigtailed youngster’s robotic creation rampages through town in Mac Barnett’s Oh No! (or, How My Science Project Destroyed the World). In School Library Journal, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote that Santat’s “graphic style bring[s] a true comicbook sensibility,” to the tale.
Santat’s art has also graced the pages of several fractured fairy tales by Corey Rosen Schwartz. His illustrations for The Three Ninja Pigs feature digitally enhanced Sumi brushwork on rice paper, and Booklist reviewer Ilene Cooper noted that they “have a three-dimensional feel that’s great when kicks and chops are being executed.” In Ninja Red Riding Hood, “Santat’s artwork … divides the action into diagonal panels, maximizing the roundhouse impact,” noted Thom Barthelmess in Booklist, and colleague Sarah Hunter remarked of Hensel and Gretel, Ninja Chicks that “Santat’s dynamic, warm-toned, and action-filled illustrations throw a nice nod to kung-fu movies.”
Santat collaborated with writer Gennifer Choldenko on the 2017 book Dad and the Dinosaur. It finds a young boy named Nicholas relying on his plastic dinosaur friend to give him confidence in scary situations. When the dinosaur goes missing, Nicholas and his brave father, Big Nick, search for it. A Publishers Weekly reviewer commented: “Santat’s warm, expressive spreads give full credence to the fears that weigh on kids.”
Dude!, written by Aaron Reynolds, also features illustrations by Santat. This volume features a beaver and a platypus, who enjoy an eventful surfing excursion together. Their only communication with one another is the repeated use of the book’s title word. A critic in Kirkus Reviews stated: “Surprises, mayhem, potty humor, sharks, and ice cream: What’s not to like?” A Publishers Weekly reviewer suggested: “The many dopey laughs and Santat’s panoply of goofy facial expressions deliver the message with sprinkles on top.” “Santat makes the book shine with great skill in pacing and perspective,” asserted Andrew Medlar in Booklist.
Santat explores his Thai roots in the illustrations he contributes to Drawn Together, a book written by Minh Lê. In it, a boy who has been raised in the United States uses drawings to communicate with his grandfather, who only speaks Thai. In an interview with Lê for Publishers Weekly, Santat discussed his complex relationship with his family’s Thai heritage and stated: “Drawn Together felt like an opportunity for a sort of redemption for me. This was the first book I’ve ever done that dealt with Asian culture and it was my opportunity to fill that void that I had in me for so long.” Santat added: “I have to say that this was the first time in my career when the manuscript actually pushed me as an artist and I was compelled to experiment and explore my skill set even further. This manuscript was asking me not just to tell a story using my style, it was asking me to incorporate the art styles of the characters in the book, which I’ve never done before.” Santat told Patricia Oldroyd of Marmalade Books: “Minh was very open to interpretation in his manuscript allowing me to use either Thai or Vietnamese cultural aspects for the story. The story had a dragon in the plot and I knew of a fairly ornate dragon (or serpent) in Thai mythology so I went in that direction also knowing that the decorative clothing in Thai culture would also lend to a very detailed and ornate look for the book.”
A contributor to Publishers Weekly commented: “Santat’s work dazzles with layers of color, exquisitely worked traditional designs, and ambitious scale.” A Kirkus Reviews writer suggested: “Le’s compelling storyline is propelled forward by Santat’s illustrations, each capturing both the universal longing to connect and the joy of sharing the creative process.”
The Princess and the Pit Stop, written by Tom Angleberger and illustrated by Santat, draws elements from the classic fairy tale, The Princess and the Pea. In this version, the Princess is a race car driver who beats her opponents in a dramatic race and celebrates her win with a raucous party. “Best selling Angleberger and Caldecott winner Santat are proven successes, and this high-energy, girl-powered tale will zoom right off shelves,” remarked John Peters in Booklist. A Publishers Weekly critic commented: “Rocket-fueled panel artwork by Santat … gleams like carbon fiber.” Julie Roach, a reviewer in Horn Book, suggested: “This speedy freshening up of classic characters from children’s literature honors the power of confidence and determination.”
Written by Kate Beasley, Lions & Liars finds Santat illustrating a story about a flea named Frederick who is determined to become popular. When he accidentally ends up at a boys’ disciplinary camp, Frederick learns more about social hierarchy. Julia Smith, contributor to Booklist, described the volume as “a winning story that matches earnestness with humor.”
Santat collaborated with singer-songwriter Rhett Miller in No More Poems! A Book in Verse That Just Gets Worse. The book features twenty-four poems describing the naughty antics of a young narrator. A Publishers Weekly critic suggested: “Though the rhyme and meter clank in spots, hilarity runs high.” A contributor to Kirkus Reviews commented: “Miller and Santat’s fun, eminently contemporary collaboration will charm both kids and the adults reading with them.”
In The Great Santa Stakeout, written by Betsy Bird, Freddy Melcher is Santa Claus’s biggest fan. For the next Christmas Eve, Freddy plans to catch Santa coming down the chimney and snap a selfie picture with his idol. Except, Freddy falls asleep and misses Santa’s visit, only to wake up and find that Santa left behind a Santa lawn ornament in his place. With his illustrations, Santat “infuses every spread with additional giggles, from the details found in Freddy’s North Pole paraphernalia to the chuckle-worthy blueprint drawings,” according to Becca Worthington in Booklist. A writer in Kirkus Reviews declared: “Santat’s multimedia art elevates Bird’s joyful, playful text to holiday picture-book excellence.”
Deborah Diesen wrote and Santat illustrated The Perfect School Picture in which a boy does everything he can to sabotage his school photo. He messes his hair, stains his shirt, and gets art paint all over himself. But for all his manipulation, the picture taking session doesn’t go as planned. Writing in Publishers Weekly a critic noted: “Santat’s digital artwork chronicles the child’s emotional ride, from simmering rage to fiendish calculation.”
Santat illustrated Bear Is a Bear, written by Jonathan Stutzman, about a girl’s love for her teddy bear. “In this ode to the timelessness of cherished playthings, a toy bear accompanies a child through myriad experiences,” noted a Kirkus Reviews writer. The bear serves many functions, as a fancy lady at a tea party, or a pirate, or a pillow, with the refrain “Bear is a bear full of love.” When the girl grows up, she abandons the bear in a toy chest, but later in life, she pulls out the bear for the next generation to love. “Santat’s digitally rendered illustrations in watercolor pencil explode with character and warmth,” observed Lolly Gepson in Booklist.
A new re-telling of The Little Engine That Could, written by Watty Piper with an introduction by Dolly Parton, celebrates the classic story’s 90th anniversary. With its original text, the book inspires encouragement and perseverance with the tale of a train with a broken-down engine climbing a mountain, chanting “I think I can. I think I can” as dolls, toys, and a clown cheer it on. “Santat’s new illustrations are big, bold, and dynamic, with childlike touches that make them endearing,” according to Booklist contributor Carolyn Phelan.
In the adventure-filled Lift, written by Minh Lê and illustrated by Santat, a girl learns about sibling rivalry and growing up. Whenever the family leaves and returns to their apartment, Iris always gets to press the button on the elevator in their building. Until one day her toddler brother pushes it, and her parents praise him. Iris is angry, and with a make-believe panel of buttons, she presses them and imagines being transported to magical places. “Santat’s comedic versatility and theatrical use of light give the story cinematic momentum,” noted a Publishers Weekly writer. A Kirkus Reviews critic reported: “Styled like a graphic novel’s, the illustrations focus on Iris’ feelings.”
Chris Harris’s The Alphabet’s Alphabet, illustrated by Santat, depicts how all the letters of the alphabet are related to the other letters. For example, “An H is a U with pair of stilts on” and “B is a D with its belt on too tight.” Commenting in Publishers Weekly, a reviewer noted: “Santat’s endless stream of energy delivers one over-the-top gag after another.” A Kirkus Reviews writer said: “Santat’s colorful, riotous alpha-illustrations imbue pages or spreads with comical visual details.”
In a story about kindness written by Brad Meltzer and illustrated by Santat, A New Day finds Sunday, the day of the week, tired of being unpaid and unappreciated, so she quits. Other types of days, such as DogDay, FunDay, and SuperheroDay, audition as replacements. Along comes a girl with a thank-you note for Sunday, who appreciates the gratitude, realizes she was missed, and returns to being a day of the week. Mary Lanni declared in School Library Journal: “Enjoyably executed, this story emphasizes the importance of kindness in a world that sometimes forgets.”
The Blur, written by Minh Lê and illustrated by Santat, spoofs how quickly children grow up. A little Asian American girl takes her first steps as a toddler and then, whoosh, she becomes a blur of activity. In her parents’ eyes, she appears to be a blur as she achieves milestones as she ages and zips through her childhood years. Commenting in School Library Journal, Katherine Forsman explained that the story “documents the quick journey from infancy to graduation, which seems to happen in a blur.”
Singer-songwriter Rhett Miller wrote The Baby-Changing Station, illustrated by Santat, which finds 10-year-old James jealous and annoyed that he now has a baby brother, Joe. When dining in a restaurant, James’s parents make him take Joe to the restroom to change his diaper. At the baby-changing station, a machine appears and tells James he can trade in his baby brother for a cool item, such as a guitar or a chemistry set. James considers each item, but in the end, thinks it would be more fun to play with those things with Joe when his brother gets older. In an interview with Betsy Bird at School Library Journal, Santat explained that he was an only child who wished for a sibling. Approaching the book’s illustration, Santat said: “The idea that you could use a sibling as currency is hilarious to me.” Abby Hanlon remarked in New York Times: “Miller and Santat deliver a super-fun, original and solidly constructed story with an adorable and climactic conclusion.”
[re-resume new]The Secret Society of Aunts & Uncles, by actor Gyllenhaal and entrepreneur Greta Caruso, imagines an in-between world where aunts and uncles are trained to be fun-loving release valves in the lives of their nieces and nephews. A Publishers Weekly reviewer remarked that Santat “infuses the story with all the verve of a game show challenge, … with oodles of comic drama.” Lisa Yee kicks off her “Misfits” series with A Royal Conundrum, introducing a group of prodigious tweens whose boarding school is cover for a crime-fighting organization. A Publishers Weekly reviewer noted that “expressive and animated … pencil illustrations by Santat add dynamism to the text and heighten the rapidly paced narrative.” Dragon copes with a cold with help from faithful friend Phoenix in Charlotte Cheng’s Roar-choo! A Kirkus Reviews writer declared that “every page is packed with color and action,” with Santat depicting the protagonists “as larger-than-life cartoons with humorously expressive features.”
Once more teaming up with author Lê, Santat illustrated Built to Last, about two children who bond over imaginatively building up, as well as tearing down, cardboard block towers. A Kirkus Reviews writer enjoyed how “onomatopoeic words are illustrated with force; ‘CRASH!’ judders across the page, and ‘KABOOM’ glows with intensity.” Mo Willems is the author of Lefty, in which two photographed hands, posed like puppets but adorned only with illustrated glasses, honor and celebrate left-handedness. Historical interludes are fully illustrated. A Kirkus Reviews writer affirmed that Santat conveys “all kinds of emotions” through the “little drawn eyes” and is “clearly having a ball” in illustrating the various sections “in the style of Puritanical pamphlets, Greco-Roman friezes, and 1950s ad campaigns.”
Don’t Trust Fish, the picture-book debut of Irish novelist Neil Sharpson, seems like a helpful guide to the natural world, with particular cautions concerning the unpredictability of fish, until the narrator gradually reveals himself to be a crab with a chip on his shoulder. Observing that the photorealistic illustrations “grow more colorful and their lines more relaxed” as the narrator loses his cool, Linda M. Castellitto of BookPage praised Don’t Trust Fish as a “laugh-out-loud story … with witty illustrations sure to inspire even more giggling.”[close new]
BIOCRIT
PERIODICALS
Booklist, November 15, 2004, Ilene Cooper, review of The Guild of Geniuses, p. 592; October 15, 2008, Thom Barthelmess, review of The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch, p. 45; August 1, 2009, Kay Weisman, review of Chicken Dance, p. 77; October 15, 2009, Hazel Rochman, review of Bobby vs. Girls (Accidentally), p. 52; May 1, 2010, Ian Chipman, review of Attack of the Fluffy Bunnies, p. 86; December 1, 2012, Ilene Cooper, review of The Three Ninja Pigs, p. 71; July 1, 2014, Thom Barthelmess, review of Ninja Red Riding Hood, p. 88; April 1, 2016, Sarah Hunter, review of Hensel and Gretel, Ninja Chicks, p. 75; December 1, 2016, Kay Weisman, review of Dad and the Dinosaur, p. 64; March 15, 2017, Kay Weisman, review of Rodzilla, p. 49; September 15, 2017, John Peters, review of After the Fall: How Humpty Dumpty Got Back Up Again, p. 56; March 15, 2018, Andrew Medlar, review of Dude!, p. 76; April 15, 2018, John Peters, review of The Princess and the Pit Stop, p. 57; May 15, 2018, Julia Smith, review of Lions & Liars, p. 55; September 15, 2019, Becca Worthington, review of The Great Santa Stakeout, p. 60; September 1, 2021, Lolly Gepson, review of Bear Is a Bear, p. 78; March 1, 2020, Carolyn Phelan, review of The Little Engine That Could, p. 64.
BookPage, October, 2017, Julie Danielson, review of After the Fall, p. 28; May, 2025, Linda M. Castellitto, review of Don’t Trust Fish, p. 30.
Bulletin of the Center for Children’s Books, October, 2016, Jeannette Hulick, review of The Cookie Fiasco, p. 93.
Horn Book, September-October, 2009, Jennifer M. Brabander, review of Bobby vs. Girls (Accidentally), p. 577; April 15, 2011, Jesse Karp, review of Sidekicks, p. 43; July-August, 2011, Jonathan Hunt, review of Sidekicks, p. 160; July-August, 2015, Dan Santat, transcript of Caldecott Medal acceptance speech, p. 45, and Connie Hsu, profile of Santat; February 1, 2016, Julia Smith, review of Are We There Yet?, p. 52; March-April, 2016, Sam Bloom, review of Are We There Yet?, p. 77; May-June, 2017, Roger Sutton, review of Dad and the Dinosaur, p. 71; November-December, 2017, Patrick Gal, review of After the Fall, p. 87; July-August, 2018, review of Drawn Together, p. 92; July-August, 2018, Julie Roach, review of The Princess and the Pit Stop, p. 84.
Horn Book Guide, fall, 2014, Shara Hardeson, review of The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend, p. 44; spring, 2016, review of The Guild of Geniuses, p. 47.
Kirkus Reviews, November 15, 2004, review of The Guild of Geniuses, p. 1093; April 1, 2007, review of The Secret Life of Walter Kitty; October 15, 2008, review of The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch; April 1, 2009, review of Always Lots of Heinies at the Zoo; July 1, 2009, review of Chicken Dance; August 15, 2009, review of Bobby vs. Girls (Accidentally); June 1, 2011, review of Sidekicks; May 15, 2014, review of Ninja Red Riding Hood; January 15, 2015, review of The Schnoz of Doom; February 15, 2016, review of Are We There Yet?; April 1, 2017, review of Dad and the Dinosaur; August 1, 2017, review of After the Fall; February 15, 2018, review of Dude!; May 1, 2018, review of Drawn Together; January 15, 2019, review of No More Poems! A Book in Verse That Just Gets Worse; March 15, 2019, review of Harold & Hog Pretend for Real!; September 1, 2019, review of The Great Santa Stakeout; July 15, 2021, review of Bear Is a Bear; June 15, 2020, review of The Alphabet’s Alphabet; March 15, 2022, reviewThe Aquanaut; December 15, 2022, review of A First Time for Everything; February 1, 2023, review of Because I’m Your Mom; March 1, 2024, reviews of Roar-choo! and Built to Last; August 1, 2024, review of Lefty; November 15, 2024, review of A Copycat Conundrum.
Publishers Weekly, January 10, 2005, review of The Guild of Geniuses, p. 55; December 19, 2005, review of Born to Drive, p. 65; April 23, 2007, review of The Secret Life of Walter Kitty, p. 50; November 10, 2008, review of The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch, p. 50; April 27, 2009, review of Always Lots of Heinies at the Zoo, p. 130; July 20, 2009, review of Chicken Dance, p. 139; August 31, 2009, review of Bobby vs. Girls (Accidentally), p. 58; October 26, 2009, review of The Christmas Genie, p. 57; April 26, 2010, review of Attack of the Fluffy Bunnies, p. 109; May 10, 2010, review of Oh, No! (or, How My Science Project Destroyed the World), p. 44; May 2, 2011, review of Sidekicks, p. 59; January 27, 2014, review of The Adventures of Beekle, p. 190; January 11, 2016, review of Are We There Yet?, p. 54; February 8, 2016, review of Hensel and Gretel, Ninja Chicks, p. 70; December 12, 2016, review of Dad and the Dinosaur, p. 146; March 13, 2017, review of Rodzilla, p. 82; July 24, 2017, review of After the Fall, p. 56; December 4, 2017, review of Dad and the Dinosaur, p. S31; December 4, 2017, review of After the Fall, p. S28; February 5, 2018, review of Dude!, p. 59; March 26, 2018, review of Drawn Together, p. 118; April 23, 2018, review of Lions & Liars, p. 88; April 30, 2018, review of The Princess and the Pit Stop, p. 59; November 27, 2018, review of The Princess and the Pit Stop, p. 31; November 27, 2018, review of Drawn Together, p. 14; January 7, 2019, review of No More Poems!, p. 55; April 22, 2019, review of The Perfect School Picture, p. 98; July 20, 2020, review of The Alphabet’s Alphabet, p. 179; January 24, 2022, review of The Aquanaut, p. 58; February 20, 2023, Libby Morse, “One Busy Guy,” p. 25; July 10, 2023, review of The Secret Society of Aunts & Uncles, p. 56; October 23, 2023, review of A Royal Conundrum, p. 47.
School Library Journal, December, 2004, Blair Christolon, review of The Guild of Geniuses, p. 120; July, 2006, Walter Minkel, review of Born to Drive, p. 109; January, 2007, H.H. Henderson, review of Water Balloon Doom, p. 100; June, 2007, Elaine E. Knight, review of The Society of Super Secret Heroes: The Great Cape Rescue, p. 123; November, 2008, Barbara Elleman, review of The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch, p. 90; April, 2009, Blair Christolon, review of Always Lots of Heinies at the Zoo, p. 106; September, 2009, Barbara Elleman, review of Chicken Dance, p. 133; October, 2009, Linda Israelson, review of The Christmas Genie, p. 80; November, 2009, Tina Martin, review of Bobby vs. Girls (Accidentally), p. 91; July, 2010, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan, review of Oh No!, p. 55, and Elaine E. Knight, review of Attack of the Fluffy Bunnies, p. 55; August, 2010, Nicole Waskie, review of Bobby the Brave (Sometimes), p. 89, and Kira Moody, review of The Adventures of Nanny Piggins, p. 113; July, 2011, Benjamin Russell, review of Sidekicks, p. 122; April, 2014, Mary Elam, review of The Adventures of Beekle, p. 134; June, 2014, Amy Shepherd, review of Ninja Red Riding Hood, p. 92; January, 2016, Barbara Auerbach, review of Are We There Yet?, p. 77; August, 2016, Kimberly Tolson, review of The Cookie Fiasco, p. 84.
Story Monsters Ink, December, 2017, Julianne Black, review of After the Fall, p. 54.
ONLINE
BookPage, https://bookpage.com/ (February 11, 2015), Cat Acree, author interview.
Children’s Book Review, https://www.thechildrensbookreview.com/ (May 24, 2025), Bianca Schulze, “Dan Santat Discusses A First Time for Everything,” podcast interview.
Dan Santat website, https://www.dantat.com/ (August 19, 2022).
Geeks Out, https://www.geeksout.org/ (April 2, 2025), Michele Kirichanskaya, “Interview with Dan Sanat, Creator of A First Time for Everything.”
Horn Book, https://www.hbook.com/ (June 13, 2018), Roger Sutton, interview with author and Minh Le.
Kirkus Reviews, https://www.kirkusreviews.com/ (July 24, 2023), Mahnaz Dar, “Dan Santat in Conversation With His Younger Self.”
Kite Tales, https://scbwikitetales.wordpress.com/ (June 15, 2018), Christine Van Zandt, interview with author and Aaron Reynolds.
Marmalade Books, https://readmarmalade.com/ (August 10, 2018), Patricia Oldroyd, author interview.
New York Times, https://www.nytimes.com/ (August 5, 2022), Abby Hanlon, review of Baby-Changing Station.
NPR website, https://www.npr.org/ (December 2, 2023), Eyder Peralta, “Dan Santat on His Graphic Memoir ‘A First Time for Everything.'”
Publishers Weekly, https://www.publishersweekly.com/ (February 3, 2015), John A. Sellers, author interview; (May 30, 2018), interview with author and Minh Le; (May 2020), review of Lift.
School Library Journal, https://www.slj.com/ (January 1, 2021), Mary Lanni, review of A New Day; (October 26, 2021), Betsy Bird, “Baby Changing Station: An Interview with Dan Santat and Rhett Miller;” (June 10, 2022), Katherine Forsman, review of The Blur; (January 19, 2024), “5 Questions with Dan Santat.”
5 Questions with Dan Santat
by SLJ Staff
Jan 19, 2024 | Filed in News & Features
0
Winning awards can be life-changing. That’s definitely true if the honor is the Caldecott, Newbery, or Printz medal. SLJ asked past winners of the Big Three about their fondest memories of receiving the award, the biggest challenges after, and their words of advice for this year’s winners—who will be announced Monday, January 22 during the Youth Media Awards ceremony.
5 Questions with...
Jerry Craft
John Green
Brian Floca
Tae Keller
Jason Chin
Dan Santat recently won the National Book Award for Young People's Literature for his graphic memoir, A First Time for Everything, which is on many shortlists for this year's Newbery. But before all of that, he won the 2015 Caldecott Medal for The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend, which he also wrote.
Here Santat explains why the Caldecott should be awarded to the illustrator and the author, and reveals his memorable middle-of-the-night DM from that year's Newbery winner, Kwame Alexander.
For you, rules and criteria aside, what makes a book Caldecott worthy?
I think the thing that isn't said is that I feel like the award is supposed to be given to the "artist of the most distinguished American picture book for children" Librarians weigh on this judgment by the illustrations and how they work with the text and I've seen fabulously illustrated books that seem to have never gathered any recognition maybe perhaps because the words weren't deemed worthy for the award. I find it odd that this award be given only to the artist since it requires the words to be a tool measured to see if it is distinguished. With that said, and I don't say this to toot my own horn, but I think the award has always gone to the best picture book of the year. I feel the Caldecott should go to both author AND illustrator because I don't feel like the award has ever been truly just about the art.
What is your fondest memory of winning the award?
My fondest memory was maybe 48 hours after the announcement of the winners and I was still being showered with emails and direct messages from folks congratulating me. I remember being so happy that I couldn't really sleep for a few days and one evening at around 2 a.m. I got a direct message from Kwame Alexander, the Newbery winner that year, and he simply wrote "Are you having a hard time sleeping, too?" From there we chatted for almost an hour and ever since then we run into each other at other banquets and conferences and briefly catch up. I don't know if Caldecott and Newbery winners from the same winning years bond in that way but I'm glad we did.
What is the biggest challenge for an author after winning?
I think I may only speak for myself when I say that there's this feeling you have that you have to live up to the award and it can be a little soul-crushing for the first few months. You feel like all your work afterward has to be award-worthy which is a pressure that can cause great stress. You wonder if you're a flash in the pan or if you are capable of recreating something of that same caliber. There's this existential crisis where you reach the top of this metaphorical career summit and you find yourself asking where you go from there in order to feel joy in the craft of making books because now every book feels like it has to be perfect.
Any advice for this year’s winner?
One of the best pieces of advice I got after winning came from my friend and fellow writer, Bruce Coville. He said, "Look, William Shakespeare wrote some amazing work, but he also wrote a lot of bad stuff in between. You keep doing what you do, some of it is good, some of it will be bad, but you keep going and you continue to grow and never look back at what you could have done better, but most importantly, enjoy this achievement."
What are you working on now?
It's a long list. I'm illustrating about six other picture books for other authors as well as two middle grades. In terms of my own work, I'm working on three new books for my old 2010 graphic novel, Sidekicks, as well as a new graphic novel series for Macmillan which I'm writing and illustrating but I'm not at liberty to discuss yet. Meanwhile, I'm gathering new research material for another memoir, as well as attempting to write a middle grade novel about urban legends in Los Angeles.
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Dan Santat
Santat in 2025
Santat in 2025
Born 1975 (age 49–50)
Brooklyn, New York, U.S.
Genre Children's literature
Notable awards Caldecott Medal, National Book Award
Website
dansantatbooks.com
Dan Santat (born 1975) is an American author and illustrator known for his children's book The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend, which won the 2015 Caldecott Medal for distinguished illustration. He also wrote The Guild of Geniuses and created the Disney Channel animated series The Replacements. He was awarded the 2023 National Book Award for Young People's Literature for A First Time for Everything.[1][2]
Biography
Santat was born in 1975 to Thai immigrants in Brooklyn before moving to California when Santat was three.[3] After attending high school at Adolfo Camarillo High School, Santat graduated from the University of California at San Diego with a bachelor's degree in microbiology.[4][5] Santat then attended the Art Center College of Design, graduating with distinction[6] in 2001.[7] While there he became friends with illustrator Peter Brown.[3]
Santat also worked as an environment artist for the video game company Activision for a series of Spider-Man games.[8]
Santat's first children's book, The Guild of Geniuses, was published in 2004[7] by Arthur A Levine books. He followed that up illustrating the first Nanny Piggins book written by R. A. Spratt, and the first Otto Undercover book series written by Rhea Perlman. Since then he has illustrated for other authors, including Dan Gutman (The Christmas Genie), Barbara Jean Hicks (The Secret Life of Walter Kitty), and Anne Isaacs (The Ghosts of Luckless Gulch).[9]
In 2005, Santat created the show The Replacements for Disney Channel.[10] Based on a children's book idea he was going to write,[9] the show premiered in July 2006.[11] Santat has spoken of his admiration of those who can do the drawing necessary for animation. He spoke of the challenges of working on The Replacements, "Working creatively with a large corporation and numerous executives was rather frustrating because there was a feeling that there was a process of homogenization to try to appeal to as many kids as possible" and says he prefers the freedom of illustrative styles afforded by book editors.[12]
Santat is also a commercial illustrator, with such clients as The Wall Street Journal, Esquire, Village Voice, GQ Russia, Macworld, Macy's, and many others.[6] His work has also appeared at gallery shows - including the I Am 8 Bit art show in 2006, 2007, and 2008.[13] In 2010 he turned down the opportunity to create Google Doodles not wanting to abandon his dream of making children's books.[3]
Santat has completed illustrations for over 60 books, 14 of which were published, in 2014 alone.[3]
Personal life
Santat lives in Southern California with his wife, Leah (a lab manager and technician at Cal Tech),[4] his sons Alek and Kyle, a bird, three dogs, and two cats.[6] His family name is originally "Santatevongchai" (Thai: สันตติวงศ์ไชย; RTGS: Santatiwongchai) and it was granted to his great-grandfather from the king of Thailand.[14] His family name was later shortened to "Santat" after his parents immigrated to the United States.[14]
Select bibliography
Author
The Guild of Geniuses (2004)
Sidekicks (2011)
The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend (2014)
Are We There Yet? (2016)
After the Fall: How Humpty Dumpty Got Back Up Again (2017)
The Aquanaut (2022)
A First Time for Everything (2023)
Illustrator
Crankenstein (2013) & A Crankenstein Valentine (2014) written by Samantha Berger
Ricky Ricotta's Mighty Robot (2014–2016) (redrawn book series written by Dav Pilkey)
Drawn Together (2018) written by Minh Lê
The Little Engine That Could (90th anniversary edition, 2020) written by Watty Piper
Dan Santat in Conversation With His Younger Self
BY Mahnaz Dar • July 24, 2023
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Dan Santat in Conversation With His Younger Self
Dan Santat. Photo from First Second
Nora Ephron famously said that “Everything is copy”—a statement that Dan Santat might agree with. With A First Time for Everything (First Second, Feb. 28), a graphic memoir that chronicles his 1989 middle school trip to Europe, he shares all: the good, the bad, and the full-body-cringe-inducingly awkward. The book sees 13-year-old Dan grow from an insecure wallflower into a more confident young person as he takes risks. Most terrifying—and wonderful—of all, he meets and falls in love with his first girlfriend, Amy. Along the way, Santat lays bare his most intimate, and embarrassing, memories, from a disastrous speech delivered before an assembly of jeering peers to his first kiss with Amy (aiming for her cheek, he lands on her ear). As he tells Kirkus via Zoom from his home in Pasadena, California, “My job with this book was to lean into those awkward moments, because that’s honestly where the good stuff is when it comes to storytelling.”
The book has been years in the making—he charts its origins to 2018, when one of his sons, then 13, asked him about the first time he’d ever fallen in love. So Santat told both his children about the trip. “Their jaws just dropped wide open, just hearing about what it was like for their father to grow up in the 1980s.” Some adults may raise a few eyebrows—in Munich, where the drinking age was 14 at the time, young Dan, encouraged by a permissive teacher, gulps down a beer; wanders Paris without adult supervision; and is chased by a horde of angry punks after stealing a bicycle in Salzburg. Santat is aware that sometimes parents “try to give off this persona that we are perfect and that we can solve all the problems, because we don’t want our kids to worry about things.” But he wanted to be candid about his experiences, to depict both his triumphs and his mistakes.
Though known for his picture books, among them the Caldecott-winning The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend (2014), Santat finds the graphic format a little less constraining. “You can paint these broad strokes—like, we were traveling through London, we were traveling through Switzerland. But then you can laser-focus on particular moments—here we are in the middle of a park, and we’re listening to Beethoven being played with the string orchestra, and I remember dancing with you.”
The book has struck a chord with readers, he adds. “One of the comments that I get from a lot of people is, It felt like I was really there on the trip, it felt like I was on the bus. Maybe there is something to be said about the graphic novel format in terms of injecting someone into a particular time period.”
Santat relied on journals, photos, and letters saved by Amy, whose meticulous notes detailed everything from hotel names to weather conditions. The two also reminisced about the trip; Amy confided that her curly hair on the trip was the result of a perm she hated—a detail that made it into the book. “It was almost like being in character and reliving these moments,” he says.
He’s stayed in contact with other friends from the trip, like Shelley, who told him that she framed a picture of a dragon he drew for her. As Santat worked on the book, he posted sketches on Instagram, and other students came out of the woodwork, sharing their own memories. “In a weird way, the book kind of turned into a yearbook,” he says. “Here’s one last souvenir from this trip from 35 years ago.”
One of the most poignant scenes came from an unexpected source. Young Dan flashes back to a time before the European trip, when Shelley unexpectedly got her period, so he loaned her a sweater and gave her a ride home—something both he and Shelley had forgotten about until his mother reminded him. Moments like these “add color, because you don’t want these one-dimensional characters…the comic relief or the angry girl,” Santat says. Though he “was always willing to put myself through the wringer,” Santat was protective when it came to depicting others’ vulnerable moments; he shared that scene with Shelley to make sure she was comfortable with it.
While Santat had come to terms with some of his more humiliating moments long before writing the book, he believes that creating a graphic memoir can be therapeutic—even if artists never share the finished product with anyone. “It will give you a greater understanding about yourself and why you feel that way. And as a result, you might be able to come to a certain peace with it,” he says.
Writing a memoir can also be a joyful experience, Santat says, especially when revisiting treasured memories. “It’s almost like you’re having a conversation with your younger self. And I think that’s absolutely beautiful.”
Mahnaz Dar is a young readers’ editor.
Dan Santat Discusses A First Time for Everything
Bianca SchulzeBy Bianca Schulze70 Mins Read
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Dan Santat Discusses A First Time for Everything
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A podcast interview with Dan Santat
The Children’s Book Review
In this episode, bestselling author and Caldecott Medalist Dan Santat talks about his graphic novel memoir A First Time for Everything.
This funny and moving memoir encourages readers not to be afraid to engage with the world and to try new things, and that when you do, maybe you’ll be surprised to discover that the big wide world out there is friendlier than you might first assume.
Listen to the Interview
The Growing Readers Podcast is available on all major platforms. Subscribe Now.
Dan Santat is the Caldecott Medal–winning and New York Times–bestselling author and illustrator of The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend and the road trip/time travel adventure Are We There Yet? His artwork is also featured in numerous picture books, chapter books, and middle-grade novels, including Dav Pilkey’s Ricky Ricotta series. Dan lives in Southern California with his wife, two kids, and many, many pets.
Read the Interview
Bianca Schulze: Hi, Dan. Welcome to The Growing Readers Podcast.
Dan Santat: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.
Bianca Schulze: So you have illustrated a lot of books, some of which are your own and some by other authors. Do you know what the total count is?
Dan Santat: I stopped taking count. I think the last tally that I had was just about, maybe over 120. And it’s bizarre because I used to use Goodreads as a measure to keep track of my bibliography. And then I don’t know. Goodreads, obviously, is full of bugs. And so one of the biggest bugs was it just stopped me at four pages of books. And so whenever a new book comes out, it just swaps out another one. And so there are titles on there that aren’t on the list. I don’t want to say I forgot that they were made, but it doesn’t jump to the front of my mind. But, yeah, I’ve done overshadow. I’ve done over 120 in my life. And at this point, last time I measured maybe over 130. I don’t know.
Bianca Schulze: Wow. That’s an insane amount of books. And I know that you’re a father and a husband, and I know firsthand that family life gets pretty crazy for all of us. What does a typical workday look like for you? And how do you fit the time in to create your was in your art?
Dan Santat: So it’s funny because when your kids are little, I think there are moments where you dread that they have to stay home because they want to be entertained, and so you don’t get a whole lot of work done. Both of my kids are now in high school. I actually savor those days off because then they just stay in the room. They amuse themselves. It saves me an hour of a commute each day. So typically, what will happen is we also have a lot of pets. I have three dogs, two cats, and a bird. And so the dogs always wake me up around 6:30. I give all three a quick walk, and then at 7:00 a.m., I make myself a cup of coffee, get the kids ready for school, take them off to school at eight, get home by about 8:30, I go for a six-mile run, you know, three times a week.
And then I start working around, oh, gosh, 9:30, ten. And then I’ll work till about 3:00, pick up the kids from school, get dinner ready, sit down and watch House Hunters or, you know, Real Housewives of Atlanta with my wife. But I’ll be sitting with her, maybe working on an iPad. Maybe I’m writing, maybe I’m sketching, and then it’s off the bed. So that’s my typical day, every day. Inner spooled with maybe trips to the post office, the grocery store. I also make dinner. I’m the cook. I’ll do laundry throughout the day, things like that. Any errands that need to be done. I missed her mom, and that’s been my life. And now it’ll be interesting because we’re at a point now where my older son is looking off into college and be, like, half-empty nesters in the next year and a half, and that’ll be interesting.
Bianca Schulze: So you mentioned that you go for a run, and a fun fact about you that I know is that you completed the LA Marathon. Am I correct?
Dan Santat: Yeah. So I’ve been in this business for about 20 years, and then, you know, somewhere around 2000 and gosh, 2014, I want to say, I got really overweight and unhealthy because I was just so focused on my career and making books, and I was just generating, you know, so many books year after year. It was like eight books, nine books a year. And it’s a very sedentary life, and you’re just sitting there and just gaining weight, eating. It got to the point where it was just getting really unhealthy for me, and I just found it hard to breathe and things like that.
And then I thought maybe it would be great to just break up the morning by going back for a morning jog. I mean, the other part of it was when you have young, energetic kids, and I hate to say this, but the thing that got me started into running was because I wanted to be healthier so I could have more energy, so I could do more work. That’s kind of the truth behind my motivation for wanting to exercise. And I was not someone who loved running. Running was, like, my least favorite thing. And so it just started with two-mile runs and then 4 miles, and then 4 miles became 8 miles, and then you kind of have this thought you were thinking, like, oh, you know, if I just ran a little bit further, I could do a half marathon, right?
And then you decide to train for the half marathon, and you see the tremendous results on your body, and it makes you feel so good, and that ends up becoming a motivation for you to work even harder. I know for most people, it’s really hard to get on the wagon, but once you do and you eventually make it a part of your lifestyle, it’s life-changing. I used to get sinus infections all the time. I get really bad colds and stuff like that and allergies. And now, because I’ve been running for about, you know, 78 years now, I don’t have sinus infections anymore. I don’t get allergies. If I have a cold or something like that, it passes through me in a day, literally, or I just don’t get sick at all. And so it’s been tremendously life-changing, and I guess the encouraging word to your folks is try something at least once because you never know, the thing that you thought you absolutely hated might end up being the most favorite thing that you’ve ever done in your life.
Bianca Schulze: Yes, I love that. Well, if you weren’t a writer and illustrator, what would you be doing for a profession?
Dan Santat: This is a question that I think we all ask ourselves when we’re at conferences and things like that. I don’t know if this is tied in together, but I always thought it would be fun to be in the advertising business. I took an advertising class in art school, and it ended up being the most useful class for my entire career. You would think maybe it was a color theory class or design or something like that, but it actually turned out to be advertising. Being able to communicate with people and using symbology, I just find that essential.
Another part is I’m really passionate. I love making furniture. I have a wood shop, and when I have time, I’ll make a table. I’ll make a chair for friends and things like that. I haven’t done it in a long, long time. The last thing I did was at the start of the pandemic, I made a ukulele out of cardboard that actually works and plays, and that was a lot of fun. That was like a two-and-a-half-week assignment. But I do also have a microbiology degree because my parents had dreams and hopes that one day I was going to grow up and be a doctor. It was with their intent that they would sign me up for AP classes and Sat prep courses in hopes that I would get into a good college and become a doctor.
And I actually graduated college with a microbiology degree, got accepted into dental school, and was on the cusp of going to dental school. And then, at the last minute, all my college roommates knew that I had a passion for art and convinced me to just try to apply to art school just to see if I could get in. And that really was the hook. Yeah. I find my life could have gone many different ways, and it could have been any of those possibilities, honestly. Ultimately, you probably would see me as a dentist. I think that’s the final answer.
Bianca Schulze: I love it. Well, I want to just shout out to your college friends and any friend that encouraged you on the way because we are also grateful that you are a writer and an illustrator. So thank you to your friends.
Dan Santat: Yes, I tell them all the time, and yeah, I’ll occasionally do events, and they’ll show up, and I’ll always give them a shout-out.
Bianca Schulze: Well, since you are a writer and an illustrator, what do you think it takes to become one? And how do you think having a love for reading and storytelling plays into that?
Dan Santat: So here’s an interesting thing. When I grew up, I was not someone who loved to read. I wasn’t someone who loved grammar. I’m not great at grammar. Part of it was because my parents never really fostered the love of reading in me because they came from Thailand. It was just a very poor third-world country. A lot of the things that they gained in terms of experience and preparation for this world were utility types of things. So my parents’ idea of reading was, well, if you want to get better at math, you should read a math book. If you want to get better at science, you should read a science book. But reading for pleasure was never something that really stuck out for them.
And so I would grow up through school, and we get these creative writing assignments, and I was an only child, so I was a real movie TV junkie. And when you grow up in the 1980s, there was some bizarre stuff back then, and that was kind of like my weird passion for storytelling. And you can debate whether or not an episode of Falcon Crest is good or bad, but it did foster the fundamentals of the beginning, middle, and end, and having cliffhangers before the commercial breaks and things like that. So you do have the loose tools of the structures of storytelling.
Now, when I got older, I had a paper route, and for those of you who are younger who are not familiar with what that is, back in the day, newspapers would hire kids to deliver newspapers from door to door. You’d go on your bicycle and deliver these newspapers, and I would save all my money. And I had a friend—a great guy—he was really into Marvel Comics, and he had a trunk. He collected all of them, like Thor, The Avengers, X Men, and all those, and I immediately just fell in love. Like, this was my outlet. But prior to that, I was reading Peanuts and Calvin and Hobbes and things like that, which were great dailies. But with Marvel Comics and things like that, it led to a long story thread that would just carry on month after month.
Now, going off to a college degree, graduating with a degree, having a love for film and comic books, and then talking with friends that have a writing degree don’t typically end up doing anything with that degree. And I remember we were having this conversation. I was having a conversation with my friend, my roommate, actually, who had a writing degree, and ultimately, he grew up, you’re going to laugh, he ended up becoming a computer forensics analyst for the FBI, right? But he was always passionate about writing science fiction. Like, that was his thing. He wanted to write science fiction.
But if I recall talking to him, he went to college, and it was about the craft of writing; it was about building these beautiful sentences and just writing whatever he was interested in. And I think, ultimately, it’s not about learning the craft. It’s not about learning how to write a book or how to write a passage. I think, ultimately, a good writer has the duty or the skill, the ability to feel empathy. And what I mean by that is, when we’re telling stories, we want you to feel a certain way from our writing. We want you to cry; we want you to laugh. We want to offer hope. So I think anybody who has the ability to do these things and do them well is people who are going to excel.
Now, you could say that, for example, telling a joke is a sample of storytelling, right? You’re trying to tell a funny story. Now, anybody can tell that joke, but there are some people who excel at telling a joke exceedingly well, putting in the details, things like that, really painting a scene in your head. And so I think the thing that separates certain writers from other writers is the ability to empathize and feel an emotion and not be afraid to share those emotions.
Writing is kind of one of those mediums where you are allowed to be human. It’s the thing that lets us feel like human beings. We’re allowed to laugh, cry in our own minds, in the comfort of our own homes, if we’re not comfortable, you know, showing our emotions in front of other people, you know, you write it down in words. You can transmit to people how you want them to feel. And I think, ultimately, the craft of writing well comes down to being able to share your empathy and having other people feel that as well.
Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I love that answer, Dan. I’m sitting here thinking to myself as I’m reading a book, and often those special moments that when you’re reading a book that either just make you feel good inside or make you laugh out loud or even make you cry, it’s because the author or even if it’s coming across in the illustrations by the illustrator, they’ve noticed something. And it’s either something that you’ve noticed too, and you’re like, oh, I’m not alone, because somebody else has noticed it too, to the point that it’s in this book, or they’ve noticed something that you’ve actually never stopped to think about. I’m curious. Have there been any pivotal stories that you’ve read or encountered in your life? And it doesn’t have to be a book. It could be a movie, but any kind of story that’s just really stayed with you and you feel has maybe sort of shaped you in some way.
Dan Santat: Oh, gosh, there are so many. Because I have, in my adulthood, discovered the love of reading. And one of those people who really contributed to that was David Sedaris. And I remember one of the first books a friend of mine in college lent me was Me Talk Pretty One Day, which is probably one of my favorite books. And I love his ability to tell satire in everyday instances. One of my other favorite shows is This American Life, the podcast. They just talk to ordinary people, and these ordinary people just talk about their daily lives. And by that, I think you kind of realize, oh, everyone has a story to tell, but if you tell it well, you can make it absolutely captivating, right? And so you sit back, and you think about your own life, and you think, oh, that might be an interesting tale to tell. I’ll tell my kids, and for the most part, they’re actually really engaged by things that they can relate to me about when they’re growing up, right? So. Yeah. David Sidaris. I remember hearing him on this American life. And then, a friend of mine lent me his book Me Talk Pretty One Day. There are other cases where I wanted to read something because everyone was just like, oh my gosh, this is such a good book; you have to read it. And one of those books was A Confederacy of Dunces, which won a Pulitzer. I don’t remember like in the early 90s, late eighties, and everyone was just like, oh my gosh, you have to read. This is the most hilarious book I’ve ever read. And I remember reading the book, and I could see where the humor lay, but I actually despised the character. And that was kind of a case where I realized, oh, the writing was fantastic. I could see where it works for certain people, but I do understand that this story is not for me. Right. And that was kind of a lesson in measuring taste. You could tell what good writing was, you could tell what bad writing was, but you could also tell why you liked something. But I think it’s equally as important to read something and understand in a very complex manner why you don’t like it but why everybody else does. Because I think some people will just generalize and say, I didn’t like this book; therefore, it’s not a good book. It can be both things. It can be a good book that you don’t happen to like. Right? And so I think for anybody who’s out there who’s writing, you have to be very critical about the criticism you receive about your own book reviews or maybe reading something that everyone liked, and you just scratch your head wondering, gosh, I wonder why people like this book? That I thought it was awful. Right. You can’t just be the center of your own universe and be like, this book I did not like; therefore, it is the worst book ever made because that’s not true. Other people like it, and other people relate to it. And I think being able to step outside of yourself and observe the world in that respect is invaluable in terms of not just for your skill set, not just for that, but also just as a human being.
Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Since you’ve created picture books, early readers, illustrated chapter books, and graphic novels, I’d love to know if there’s an overarching internal motivation that keeps you wanting to create books for kids and teens, even on a day that feels hard.
Dan Santat: Here’s the thing. When I was a kid, I remember thinking I was falling in love with movies, and I remember thinking to myself, like, oh, gosh, I’d love to make movies someday. Right. And this was in the 1980s, and at the time when you were watching movies in the 1980s, you rarely saw Asian people on the screen. And if you did, they were perceived one of two ways. One, you were either the bad guy or the henchman that got beaten up by Jackie Chan in a kung fu movie, which just seemed to be the only role for Asians back in the day in Hollywood. You were either getting beaten up by Jackie Chan or Steven Segal or on the other end; you were the butt of all jokes. You were in Police Academy, and you were in 16 Candles, and things like that. You were the one that talked funny.
As someone my age growing up culturally, my parents just never really had a firm understanding of Western society and the cultural zeitgeist. So a lot of it just relied on me trying to figure out things on my own. And a lot of those things that I kind of just measured by watch watching TV and movies and trying to figure out how I was supposed to act. Now, as a result of watching those things, your impression is, oh, I see 16 Candles, I see Police Academy. So I actually thought that my job in life in this country was to be the funny guy. Right. That was my conclusion. And I think just from not seeing myself because I didn’t want to be that guy who had to learn martial arts and fight Jackie Chan just to be in a movie or things like that.
But, you know, I quickly realized that at a very young age, probably nine or ten years old, I immediately realized, oh, that’s never going to be a reality for me. I’m never going to make a movie. No one’s going to give me a chance because I just don’t see myself in these things. Right? And so as I got older and I was really going deeper into my passion for art, then there was the thought of maybe being an animator, maybe telling stories because I was at an age where getting into anime and manga, you know, now it’s popular. You go to Hot Topic, there are anime shirts everywhere, and anybody can just go online and watch entire anime series from Japan.
But back in my day, it was the punk thing to do, where you would go to a comic convention, and there’d be a guy who went and took a trip to Japan and bought all these laser discs and then bootlegged them and recorded them all into VHS tapes, right? And then you would go up there, and you’d pay the guy $35. He’d give you a VHS tape and a manila folder with the script inside because it was never translated into English. And so you would go home, put the VHS tape in, and there was like this whole world that looked completely unlike the animation you see in the United States, where a lot of it was just for kids, and it was just goofy and anvils falling on the head. Meanwhile, Japan was doing a completely different thing, filled with drama and action, and love. And I’d be following along with this with manila script, and you’d just be following along with the episodes, just trying to figure things out. And it was my thing where I would just go to this, I would go to the comic conventions, and then I would just give this creepy old dude $35 to get me a bootleg VHS tape of a movie that I just couldn’t get enough of.
And I had been doing that for years. Just imbibing this entire culture of Japanese anime. Just made me think, well, maybe I could be an animator; maybe I could make movies because then I don’t have to be seen. Like, no one has to see me and see that I’m Asian. I could just make animated features. Around that time when The Lion King came out, all these articles started coming out saying if you can animate on a computer, you can make a lot of money. And I thought, well, that’s my in. That’s the thing that I can do to break into the business. And that was the thing that kind of really kind of eased my parents into the idea that, okay, maybe this is a legitimate kind of living.
And so I remember going into art school and then taking my first computer animation course and absolutely hating it because it took 14 weeks to make 1 minute of film. And the software was so user-unfriendly, you could tell it was made by an engineer. And there were certain things, and I just wanted to make this ball shiny or something. And instead, it gives you this graph and says, well, calculate the ambiance between a measure of one and zero on the sine wave. And you’re just like; I just want to make the ball shiny, right? That’s absolutely infuriating.
And then it wasn’t until going down the hall that there was a children’s book illustration and writing course, which was started by David Shannon, but it was being taught by this lovely instructor. And she just broke down the basics of the children’s publishing industry, how to get into it, the size of picture books 32 pages and word count, and the number of illustrations and just really sold the idea of how friendly the industry was. And for me, I thought, this is what I really want. Because animation, it requires a lot of people to tell a story, and it took me 14 weeks to make 1 minute of film. There has to be a better way to tell stories. And so I fell in love with children’s book illustration and creation because it was 32 pages. You worry about an editor. You worry about the art director, and that and that’s it, right? And it just seemed like a tangible goal.
That, for me, was all I ever wanted. I just wanted to be able to tell stories and have them published. Because I think it’s funny how there are sometimes some people that say, oh, I don’t care if people read my books. And I think that’s being really insincere because you’re not the person. How many times have I heard people say, oh, yeah, I don’t care if I won the calico? And then you find out that they didn’t sleep the whole night before. That means you care. That doesn’t mean you don’t care. Okay? Don’t be too cool to say that you don’t care. All right? Everybody cares. Everyone wants a good review.
It’s been my outlet to tell stories because there is beauty in telling stories to kids because kids aren’t cynical. They’re up for a good story. Whereas when you’re trying to entertain and tame someone who is a little bit older, you’re getting into teenagers, you’re getting into adults. Everyone has a very cynical view of everything, and it takes a lot to impress, or it might be a case where they just don’t believe what you’re trying to sell them. They always feel like they’re being sold something, and there’s something about it that it’s harder to entertain someone when their guard is up. I’m not saying that I don’t enjoy the challenge, but there is something pure about kids where you can tell a story, and they’re open to the idea.
Obviously, beginning my illustration career as a picture book illustrator. I mean, there are definitely things that I love to draw, and they just happen to be dinosaurs and robots and things like that. And I started out my career as, like, the funny guy, and I think that just kind of came from my cultural upbringing. Growing up, I think that’s what kind of led me on my way to this day. If I’m working on my own book and it takes a lot longer, I’ll illustrate other people’s manuscripts simply because I find each one to be a learning experience, just kind of seeing how writers think. You learn a tremendous amount from each experience and each project that you work on.
Bianca Schulze: It feels like you live and breathe art and share stories. And so I want to move on to talk specifically about the book you’re here to talk about, which is a first time for everything. And I have to just say that I loved it. I was laughing out loud. But it’s not your first graphic novel, but it is your first graphic novel memoir, so let me know if I’m mistaken. But the seed for this story was planted by your sons asking you when you first fell in love. Is that right?
Dan Santat: Yeah. So, I mean, to go a little bit further back, I was really touched by Gene Yang’s novel American Born Chinese. That was one of these stories where it just spoke to my soul. And I think one of the big parts that really struck me was he said the thing that made me feel really uncomfortable, and that was the main character woke up one day and he was white. And there was something about him that just was so thrilled to be white because it would just make life a lot easier. And he felt like he would be included just by changing the color of his skin. And I felt that, and I never said that to anybody because I always felt so ashamed of that song. Right.
And so I first met Gene back in 2010 at the Miami Book Festival, and that was when my first graphic novel, Sidekicks, came out. And we were hanging out. We got along really well, and we were sharing our stories about how we got into publishing despite the fact that we both had parents that wanted us to grow up and be engineers and doctors and things like that. And we just related very closely in terms of our experiences. And Gene was the one that initially planted the seed and said, well, you should consider writing a memoir about that experience.
And years went by, and I remember being at an NCTE conference in Boston and sitting in front of a bunch of librarians who asked me that same question about how I got into children’s publishing. And I told him the whole story about, you know, my parents wanted me to be a doctor and things like that. And then I think it was an editor from the Horn Book who emailed my editor at Little Brown, Connie Hsu, who was working there as an editor at the time. And then the seed just kind of got planted. I want to say this was like 2013.
And then the idea was, hey, sounds like people want a memoir about this. Maybe you should consider writing one. And then what ended up happening was Beacon won the Caldicott Medal, and then I did a nine-book series with Dave Pilkey, and then I worked with Mo Willems, and suddenly six years go by, and meanwhile, you’re talking to all your other friends who had talked about doing memoirs before, after you had already said that you were planning on doing a memoir. And you’ve got, like, Jarrett J. Krosoczka, you’ve got Vera Brosgol, you’ve got Shannon Hale, who talked about it years after I expressed the idea, and then here they’ve done multiple ones, and I have my first one coming out. I’m just a late bloomer, but it’s been a fantastic experience. And here I am. Yeah.
So I initially had another idea, and it was going to be a story about this relationship I had with my parents during a period when my mom had breast cancer. And there was a lot of cultural headbutting about how I was being raised and how my parents wanted me to grow up and be raised with the kind of sacrifice this Thai cultural belief system. I was growing up so American, so Westernized, and I remember writing multiple drafts for a number of years, and it was just really painful because I had a lot of headbutting with my parents growing up. And so I remember my editor just saying to me, there are some feelings that need to be sorted out. I don’t know if you’re ready to write this book. Right? And I just kept trying.
And then my oldest son, yeah, he was 13 at the time. And he just came up to me, and I was really touched by this because this is not something I ever would have done with my own father. And he asked me, he said, dad, when was the first time you fell in love? And didn’t even realize it at the time until I spoke to some of the other mothers at the school. But it turned out that their daughters were at an age where they were like, hey, your son is kind of cute, and I’d like to just hang out with them a little bit more. And so that’s where this was coming from.
My son asked me, dad when was the first time you ever fell in love? And I had to stop, and I had to think about it. And that’s where this trip came up. You know, it was this three-week trip, and it was one of these things where it was kind of the stuff of legend, you know, where you would go to the school you go to high school, and all your friends who didn’t go on the trip would say, oh, my gosh, you were on that trip. You did that, and you did this, and they let you get away with that. And it was one of these things that were always just a really solid icebreaker, but I had never originally thought of it as a story.
And so I’m telling my kids a story, and their jaws are just dropped wide open because a lot of things have changed over those years where adults would just kind of let you run free. Just don’t come back until the sun’s down. That’s kind of the way we were raised. And it just blew my kids’ minds because that’s not how kids are these days. That’s not how most parents raise their kids. We want to know where you are at all times. That’s kind of the thing. Now the world’s dangerous. Go out and let me know. Call me every half hour, things like that. I remember telling my editor, Connie, this, and she stopped me, and she says, hey, wait. How come you’ve never told me this story before? And I said, oh, well, because we’re writing this story about my mom having breast cancer. She said, no, this story has everything. It has a beginning, middle, and end. It’s a summer romance. And the best part about it is that you actually lived it. And it took place in Europe. It took place in Paris and all these other places. This is your next book.
And she told me, Just stop what you’re doing right now and write this book. And this book will teach you how to write memoirs. Because I did have a very difficult time breaking up and bending the truth and, in this particular case, working on this story. In this story, I’m here to tell you that everything in the book actually happened, but not necessarily in the order or necessarily the way it was presented, but everything in the book happened, and so everything was a very therapeutic book. It’s the thing that got me through the pandemic. It really kind of disposed of my cynicism. Like, I’m not angry at the world anymore.
There’s just something wonderful about being able to reflect on that really beautiful moment of your childhood, and then also when you’re working on the book, realizing that those feelings that you had when you were 13 are still in there. Like, it was fresh as yesterday. It was just something beautiful about that. And I think the intent of the book was to let my kids know that the world is not as dangerous and as scary as the media and the news set it out to be. And we’re at a point now where I think we’ve all gone through a global pandemic. We’ve gone through just a divided country and things like that. And I feel like the world, social media, and the news is just constantly selling us bad news, right? And I think if people were to actually go out into the world and experience it for themselves, I think the truth is that the world is beautiful, and people are not friendlier than you would expect.
Bianca Schulze: When you said specifically the words that you’re not angry at the world anymore. That sentiment, for me, came across so beautifully in the book because everybody knows that those early teen years and middle school is awkward for kids. Everybody’s trying to just make it through. They can be really unkind to each other, whether it’s intentional or not. And so I love that you had these really awkward moments, and you deliver them with such humor, and then you also get this feeling as you get to the end that you are not angry at the world anymore. And those events while they happened, and you don’t sugarcoat them and be like, it doesn’t matter. They did matter, but they shaped you and who you are, and you’re not going to let them hold you down. And so I loved that element. And so when you say the words, you’re not angry at the world anymore. I just needed you to know that that came across really well.
Dan Santat: I’m not going to name names, but the last six years for us in this country have been a little tough. I’m not going to name names, right? But you kind of get to a point where the term that everyone was saying was doom-scrolling, right? Because they would just go through their Twitter feed and just read bad news, and everyone just kind of got into a rut. They were just looking for horrible things just to kind of confirm in their own minds that the world was just an awful place. And now I think part of the big reason why everybody is so divided in this country is that we’ve just deeply rooted ourselves into this cynical belief that the world is bad and that you paint the other person who disagrees with you as other.
And I’ll give you an example, okay, so I remember having to go to San Antonio, Texas, to go do an event, and oh God, I am guilty. I am guilty of those impressions because you hear all this stuff about Texas, and you’re thinking, oh, gosh, Texas. They don’t really, you know, I think the thing that your impression is, and everyone has an impression of everything initially, everyone’s guilty of it. And so the impression of Texas, whether Texans like it or not, is that they’re anti-abortion, they love their guns, and they’re all about banning books.
And then you go into San Antonio, and you fly in there, and you just have this impression like oh God, San Antonio. I’m just going to get there, and I’m going to do my thing, get my plane, and get out. And then you go there, and you meet the people, and you interact with them, and they’re beautiful people. And the town, the riverwalk, the Alamo, all these little places. Like, when you actually meet these people, and you interact with them, they’re lovely, lovely people. And that’s when I stopped, and I thought to myself, oh, I’m the jerk. I’m guilty of what everybody else is doing. I made an opinion about somebody or something without seeing for myself. And that’s a problem on my part.
It’s interesting because after these tumultuous years of politics, and this is a crazy thing, I’m able to dissociate myself from all the bad news in the world. Not to say that it’s not concerning, not to say that I don’t care, but there is a point in your mental health where you have to stop, and you have to think to yourself, how much can I affect change in this how much do I want to get involved in the drama of this? Because that might be the thing that ruins my entire day. So I kind of got to a point where I just said, the world will be the world, and I’m going to live in it the best that I can, and that is all I can do. I worry about my kids, I worry about my family, I worry about my friends and neighbors around me. But beyond all that, it’s out of my control, and I have to be okay with that.
And if it comes to things that make you angry, I think six years is a long time to be angry at the world, right? And so one of the beauties of exploring the world and seeing how beautiful it is, is that you realize that the thing that you’re inviting on social media and on TV and the media and the news, it’s the fodder that people feed you because they want you coming back for more. They want you to be afraid of the world. Everybody wants to break the bad news, and you fall victim to it, and you believe it.
As I said, I had a paper route when I was a kid, when I was 13 years old. Whether or not that’s a good idea, I don’t know. But when you think about it today, every parent would think that you were out of your mind to let your kid ride a bicycle at six in the morning delivering newspapers, right? That would never happen anymore. Back in the day, it was completely fine. But now it’s just like, no, no, no, don’t let your kid ride the bike alone in this neighborhood. It’s dangerous, you know? And so that’s just kind of how we shifted as a culture. I think we know too much because of the Internet and things like that. I could be totally wrong.
Maybe I’m being naive and have an optimistic outlook on the world, but I will say this: I think we’re coming along to one of the most empathetic and sincerely kind generations of kids. I think we’re doing something right. I think we’re going there is something about going through something awful so that the kids can see the awfulness and want to make a change, right? I think there’s something genuinely a light in the darkness if you will.
But growing up, when you’re a kid, I think other people’s pain tends to be their currency, right? You’re just trying to get through life, and if you don’t feel good about yourself, if you don’t feel great, but you see someone else who’s maybe down in the dumps, from my experience, it was like, well, at least I’m not that person. And if there’s anything that I can take solace in, it’s that I’m not as bad as that person. If I have to, I’ll step on that person’s throat just to make myself feel better. Like, cruelty was kind of a currency, right?
And then when you reflect on it, it was like when you think about the popular kids in school, I don’t think anybody can really explain why those kids were quote unquote cool. I don’t think a lot of those popular kids were even liked. It was just like I think the thing that was appealing was that it looked like they had it together. They were wearing cool clothes. They just knew what to say. They were exuding this confidence. But if you were to say, oh, so and so back in high school, remember the popular kid? And you’re like, yeah, I didn’t really like that guy. That’s kind of the truth about the popular kid. No one likes you. It just seemed like you had everything together.
And that’s the thing. It’s just like the currency because no one has any life experiences. No one knows how to feel. And so for me, growing up in a small town, you have this horrible incident where you have to do a speech in front of the entire junior high, and you end up choking. That was everyone’s currency against me. It was, oh, my gosh, maybe my life isn’t great, but at least I’m not Dan Santat—I didn’t choke in front of the entire school trying to do an A.A. Milne poem.
And as a result, it was like I was everyone’s spoil. Everyone was just like, at least I’m not banned. And I remember for years just harboring this resentment for A.A. Milne, thinking like, oh, man, that poem Spring Morning, that ruined my life. And I remember being nauseous. I would avoid A.A. Milne’s work. And I really had resentment for that poem. Thinking, like, that was the reason for my problems when I realized much later on that I was at the wrong place at the wrong time; anybody could have been thrown on that stage and been utterly destroyed.
Bianca Schulze: Yeah.
Dan Santat: You know? Yeah.
Bianca Schulze: The best thing that you’re saying right now about A. A. Milne is that this entire book starts with quotes at the beginning, and I don’t want to give anything away, but there are more A.A. Milne references. But it starts with a quote that we didn’t know. We were making memories. We were just having fun. So I love everything you just said, and then here we are, and your entire book starts with an A.A. Milne quote. So what do you want listeners to know about the significance of that particular quote?
Dan Santat: So this is funny because when my editor told me to write this story, I remember contacting some author friends of mine, like Raina Telgemeier, because she is a master of memoirs, right? And I remember reading her book drama. And in drama, there’s a particular character in the story that she mentions having affection. And so, in this particular case in this story, there is a girl. Her name was Amy, and she was the first girl I ever kissed, and it was the first time I ever truly fell in love. And I remember asking Raina; I said, my editor told me to write this story, and I’m just wondering if I should tell Amy.
And Raina said, well, obviously, yes, because you don’t want to publish a book and then have her find out the day that it comes out that you wrote a story about her. That would be the worst thing you could do. You have to tell her. And so I remember stopping and thinking, okay, well, how am I going to break this news to her? I don’t want to just go to her and be like, hey, remember that trip to Europe where you and I, we were kind of like boyfriend-girlfriend for a while? I’m writing a book about that, right?
So my subtle way of doing it was I just got everybody into a Facebook group, maybe about, like, six people who I remember from the trip. And I said, hey, guys, remember that crazy trip to Europe that we took? Everybody just started chiming in, like, oh, yeah. Everyone just had wonderful memories of the trip, and I had to say, I’m writing a book about that. And I remember Amy responding with, wait, whoa, really? And then I wrote to her on a separate thread saying, yes, so I don’t want you to feel uneasy about this. This isn’t me harboring old, deep feelings that I’ve been holding for 30 years. This is just a story that I think is a good story. And my editor agrees that this is something that I think a lot of kids would relate to. Right?
And so interviewing all the people that I remember from the trip, asking about their memories and things like that, it turned out like everyone has just beautifully fond memories of the trip, and it turned into, like, this trip down memory lane, and it was like this reunion that we all had. The beautiful part is that all of us, in some way, of our own circles, have told this story to our circle of friends. And so there is something about this experience that I think we were unaware of. It was just I think when people tell memories about their lives, I don’t think they’re aware that they’re telling a story.
The amazing part is that it brought us, I mean, in the process of making this book, you know, there were other events that I worked into the story because they would just reach out to me and say, hey, remember, like, remember this drawing that you drew of a dragon for my father? Like, I I went to my father’s house. He still has it hanging on his wall. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, that would be a great addition to the story because I need to have some relatability to your character.
And then I remember talking to my mother, and my mother asking me, like, oh, who’s in the book? And I said, oh, gosh, you know, so and so and so and so this girl Shelley. And my mom was like, Shelley? I remember Shelley. Do you remember that time when she had her period, and she was wearing a white dress? You came to me with her, and she was wearing your sweater. And I thought that was really weird. Why is Shelley wearing your sweater? And you asked her to give us if we could give her a ride home because she had her period and she was wearing a sweater to cover herself up.
And I remember, like, looking at my mom. Mom, what are you talking about? I don’t remember any of this. And my mom just spewed all the details, like, oh, yeah, this happened, and this happened, and this happened. And I was a very proud moment because you were such a gentleman to her. I remember reaching out to Shelley and DM-ing her and saying, okay, Shelley, I wrote the scene in this book that my editor loves and thinks she should be in there. I don’t want it in there without you knowing about it, and I want to know if it’s okay. And her first response was I remember her first response was, oh, God, was I totally mean to you? And I said, no, probably nothing that I didn’t deserve back then, but this is a little bit different.
This is about a time when you had your period, and I lent you my sweater. I don’t remember any of this, but my mother remembers every second of it. And so I don’t know if you remember it, but I wrote this scene, and I want your blessing, and I hope it’s okay. It’s not with any malicious intent. And she read it, and she got back to me, like, ten minutes later, and she said, I love this. This is totally honest and real, and I don’t remember this, but I would not be shocked if my mother, who I hate, sent me to school wearing a white dress while I was on my period. Right? We all have these amazing memories of this trip, and it just turned out that it makes a beautiful story collectively.
Bianca Schulze: I think it’s so funny to read some of the things that you got up to on this trip. And I really love the author’s note in the end, which obviously describes that it was a different era, but I love that you trust that the readers need to read this and can handle reading it, and it’s just done so well. And I’m wondering, is there a specific event that feels like a highlight to you in the book?
Dan Santat: Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, first of all, I want to preface by saying that I could be wrong. Here we are in a generation where I’ll be honest with you, I feel like parents do hover over their kids too much, and if they were to sit back and reflect on what they were like when they were kids, we didn’t have those kinds of restrictions. And guess what? We’re okay, relatively, maybe a little mentally scarred from our parents. But for the most part, I think kids learn a tremendous amount from the mistakes they make in life, right?
So I experienced so many first experiences on this trip that if I were to single one out, I think sneaking into Wimbledon was probably the most surreal thing. Now, in real life, in the book, it happens on the last day, but in real life, it happens on day two of this trip, right? So one of the first cities we went to was London. And I remember how mind-blowing it was because we would be on a bus touring around the city, and then we would have lunch, and then 1:00, 2:00 would come around, and then the tour guide would just say, all right, kids, enjoy the city. We’ll meet at this restaurant at 5:00 or 6:00 p.m.
And I remember all of us just kind of standing back and thinking, like, wait, what do you like? We can do whatever we want. We have the London Underground at our disposal, and we can just run off and do whatever we want. I mean, I think back in the time, we thought, okay, this is pretty awesome because London isn’t that far different from the United States. Everyone speaks English, so if we were to get lost, we could find our way. And I remember just thinking, Wimbledon is going on right now, and I want to go check it out. And everybody else was doing the real civil thing of like, oh, you want to see Big Ben? So and so wants to go see Buckingham Palace and all these other things.
And I was like, and I want to go to Wimbledon. Does anybody want to go to Wimbledon with me? And it was my one friend Darren who said, I’ll go to Wimbledon with you, right? And so we get on the Underground, and what ends up happening? And so this isn’t actually in the book, but we end up passing the Wimbledon stop, and then we end up in an abandoned train yard. Well, we end up in a train yard, right? And for, like, 40 minutes, the train didn’t move anywhere, and we’re just sitting two kids alone in this train yard.
No, we couldn’t find a soul. We’re just walking around trying to figure out how we get out of here and where we go. Do we just walk along the train tracks and get back to the city? And we’re sitting there, and we’re just walking around trying to find someone, and then we finally see a train that was moving, and I don’t know, just like some hobos out of an old black and white movie. We’re, like, running and trying to hop onto it. And we get back, and then we get into the Wimbledon stop, and we go off, right? And we get back, and we’re coming out to Wimbledon. And now my first impression is that if the stop is called Wimbledon, for some reason, it’s going to stop right in front of the tennis club, right?
And so I get off, and this is cute little neighborhood, and I’m thinking to myself, where’s the tennis? I’m starting to panic a little bit, and my friend is just saying, look, listen, this place called Wimbledon. I’m sure the tennis is somewhere around here. If we just walk around, I bet we’ll find it. So we’re just walking. We’re just walking, and it’s raining on and off throughout the day. And then I see this guy, I see this guy gardening in front of his beautiful, quaint little home, and I’m like, excuse me, sir, we’re looking for Wimbledon. And he looks at me like son; you’re in Wimbledon. And I’m like, oh, no, we’re looking for the tennis courts. And he’s like, oh, the tennis court. You go down this road a kilometer, and you make a left. You’ll see it on your left.
And so we walk down, we walk down a kilometer and then over to our left. It’s not Wimbledon. It’s a park with tennis courts. And I’m thinking to myself, why would he think that these two American kids who aren’t even holding tennis rackets would want to come to tennis courts in a park? Tennis, we want to go to Wimbledon. And I see this little kid coming along with his little school outfit in a backpack, and we say, we’re looking for the tennis tournament, right? And he’s like, oh, yeah, just follow the chain link fence. You’re going to come along to this golf course, and it’ll just be down there. You’ll be down there, like, in another kilometer, right?
And so we walk down there, and we get there, and, like, you could just feel the energy. And I remember thinking to myself, like, I didn’t plan any further beyond that. I was just thinking to myself, like, so this is Wimbledon. This is the outside of Wimbledon. Like, this is everything. This is what my hopes and dreams were, right? And then an announcer says, okay, we’re going to be letting people in the next 20 minutes. Get your £3 ready, and you can walk the ground. I’m thinking to myself, oh, my gosh, we can walk into Wimbledon.
Meanwhile, Darren knows nothing about tennis. He cares nothing about tennis, but he’s on this adventure with me, right? And I’m like, we’re going in, and so paid our £3. I’m walking around. I’m walking around the ground, and I’m thinking, well, if there’s a rain delay because it’s been raining on and off all day, and I think if there’s a rain delay, maybe I could go take pictures of Center Court, right? And so I just walk in, and no one stops us. Because I think the idea was, well, if these two kids are here, they must obviously be here with some supervising adult. They can’t just be in here without any supervision. So no one ever paid attention to why we were in there.
And we walked in, and I remember seeing Center Court, and it was just so electric because back in the day, you could only watch Wimbledon on HBO or NBC, and I never thought I’d be on the other side of the planet actually standing in center court, right? This passion for tennis came because, as I said, my father was grooming me to be a doctor someday, and tennis was like one of those doctor’s sports that you just had to play. That was one of those weird things. I was just one of these weird kids who are like, you like tennis. You don’t like basketball and football. You like tennis.
And so here I am in center court with Darren. We just sit down, and I’m just soaking up the energy, right? And then slowly they’re removing the rain tart, and the sideline judges are coming out, and the chair umpire is coming out, and they’re squeezing the grass. They’re drying off the grass, and the stands are starting to slowly fill up. And I’m sitting there, and I’m thinking, oh, my gosh, are they actually going to play? And then Stefan Edberg. Stefan Edberg and John McEnroe come out.
Bianca Schulze: No way.
Dan Santat: And they’re getting ready to play, and I’m like, oh, my gosh, we have to stay here and see them warm up. And they’re warming up, and then this couple, this lovely couple, they come up to us, and they’re like, excuse me, these aren’t your seats. And I’m just like, yeah, no, sorry, we just came in here. We want to take pictures of the center Court, and we didn’t know, but here they’re playing tennis, and we’re just, I don’t know. Are these your seats? Are we sitting in your seat? And they say, no, these aren’t our seats. These are our friend’s seats. But turns out that they had to leave because they had a very important dinner date that they had to go on, but they weren’t expecting, like, a three-and-a-half-hour rain delay.
So because they never turned their tickets into the ticket window—because the way it works is you’re supposed to turn in the tickets, and then they give the tickets to people who are waiting in line to have a seat—he said they never turned in their tickets, so since you’re already here, you might as well just stay and watch the match.
Bianca Schulze: That’s awesome.
Dan Santat: And we were just like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. So we sat there, we were watching the last set of the 1989 men’s semifinal tennis match, and then it took about 45 minutes, and then by the time it was done, everyone jumped out of their seats. They’re starting to take pictures of this blond-haired woman, and everyone’s taller than us. We’re trying to look, and we’re thinking, it’s Princess Diana. We’re like, oh, my God. Princess Diana’s here. Princess Diana’s here. When 2019 came around, I found out that it wasn’t Princess Diana. It turns out that I actually sat a couple of rows behind John McEnroe’s wife, Tatum O’Neill. He was married to Tatum O’Neill at the time.
So anyway, the tennis match is done. 13 years old. We were supposed to meet at this restaurant at 7:00 p.m. But we didn’t get back to the hotel until 9:00 p.m. And we go back, and I’m talking to the teacher and Mrs. Bjork. I ran to the door and knocked. She opens the door. She has freaked out of her mind because it’s only day two of the trip, and she’s looking at me. She’s like, Where have you been? We’ve been looking for you everywhere. We had no idea where you were. And I’m sitting there wearing, like, this Wimbledon sweatband and wristbands and, like, a bootleg T-shirt. And I’m like; we snuck into Wimbledon when she’s mad. It was the most amazing thing ever. And she looks at me, and she’s like, Wait, what? I’m not even mad. That’s the most amazing story I’ve ever heard. Never let your parents know what happened.
It’s one of those cases where it’s just like it’s out of the movie. I have no business being there, and somehow I’m there. That’s usually, when I talk about this trip, I talk about that experience, but I kind of forget to tell everybody about the rest of the amazing trip.
Bianca Schulze: That’s awesome, though. And it’s one of those examples of when you weren’t doing anything wrong; you were just following your intuition and desires of being at Wimbledon and taking photos.
Dan Santat: Just by being curious. Right. That really is the thing that can lead you to life experiences. Just be curious.
Bianca Schulze: Yeah, absolutely. Well, let’s talk about illustrations. This is why I love graphic novels because there are these little nuggets that get planted throughout that require zero words. So for me, just as an example, the era was set as a reader simply by seeing images like the original Smurfs on a TV screen or the 80s fanner can or walkmans and mix tapes. And I loved it with just two lines and some images. I knew instantly that you watched the movie Rain Man on an airplane flight without even mentioning the title of the movie. So is there something specific that you illustrated that makes you particularly happy about in the book?
Dan Santat: Every image in the book actually has some significance from the trip. So, in particular, Rain Man in the story because the trip ends and Amy and I go our separate ways. But in real life, Amy and I flew back together to St. Louis. That was the connecting flight before we went back to La. And so we sat together on the plane, and we watched Rain Man together. And so that was just kind of like a little nod to the memory I had from that movie.
And the whole thing is it’s just interlaced with, like, little details here and there, the moment about when Kelly was sleepwalking. So in that particular case, I actually was at the Tucson Book Festival last year, and she’s now a veterinarian, and she came to the festival so that we could have dinner. And I hadn’t seen her in 33 years. And what was amazing was we were talking to each other, and what was mind-blowing was that we realized that we hardly knew anything about each other. But the three weeks of that trip was just such a tremendous impact on our minds that we almost kind of think of her as like family, right? And that was something really beautiful about the experience.
And so I remember seeing her and then letting her she said, did you, by any chance, bring the manuscript? And I had a PDF of it on my computer, on my iPad, and I said, yeah, here. And she read it. And there’s that scene where she’s sleepwalking, and she’s laughing. And the funny thing was, I asked her, I said, so, do you still sleepwalk? And she said you know what? That was the only time in my life that I’ve ever had any sleepwalking. And she was just like, I don’t know why it happened, but it just happened that day, and now it exists in a book, and it’s like all these little things that I remember; she was expressing how it wasn’t embarrassing to her, but in the story, I kind of make it sound like she was embarrassed.
Another scene in the book that bends the truth a little bit that I think still works is the fondue scene. I remember eating the fondue. I remember talking about the tradition of having to kiss someone next to you if the bread falls into the bread book into the cheese. That was not what led up to the first kiss with Amy. What ended up happening was we were on a bus to Switzerland, and we were sitting together, and I remember politely asking her if I could give her a kiss, and she said yes. And then, by the time I was ready to give her a kiss, we went into a tunnel, and everything went black.
And so I kiss her, and it’s dark. I can’t see anything. And by the time we come out of the tunnel, she’s, like, holding her ear, and she’s looking at me, like, really weird, like, what was that? Right? And then, of course, my friend Brandon on the trip, he looks at me, and he’s just like, did you kiss her on the ear? The whole bus was like, oh, my God. Dan kissed her in the ear, and it was like this really funny, funny moment that we had.
So it’s just this is the thing. I draw all these landmarks like you draw Notre Dame Cathedral, you draw Buckingham Palace, but ultimately you don’t remember the facts. Like, if I stood in front of Notre Dame, I couldn’t tell you anything about the place. Right. But I can tell you the little things. I can tell you the little things that happen on the trip. Those are the things that stay with you, the ones that elicit feelings, the ones that give you emotion. And that’s what I mean about storytellers. It’s not about the places you go. It’s about the experiences you have to go see. You don’t have to see Notre Dame Cathedral to appreciate Paris. Go to Paris, and you’ll have experiences there. Those are the parts that matter.
Bianca Schulze: Yeah.
Dan Santat: All right.
Bianca Schulze: Well, I wanted to speak quickly about one particular character who, probably because I’m a mom, I absolutely loved how you portrayed your mom. This is the humor that you added with your mom, I just freaking loved her. So you mentioned a breast cancer story, and so I hope that she is well as I’m speaking. Good. I’m glad she’s well, and I just love her. So tell me about putting your mom in the book.
Dan Santat: The thing about my mom is that she’s not a very tall woman. She’s four foot eleven, but I feared her. She knew how to put me in place. And I’ll be honest, I reflect on my life. And I was a bit of a hyper kid. Right. So one of the things was that her lupus manifested after I was born. And there was a period where I felt a lot of guilt because I thought I thought that she got lupus because of me. There was a little bit of guilt. And no, they’re not related. It’s a separate genetic thing. But I remember feeling really bad about, gosh, I felt really bad about being born because I felt like I made her sick. Right.
And my mom came from a very large family. She was the oldest of seven, and she had expressed many times that she always wanted four kids, and because of lupus, she could only have me. And so there’s a thing about Asian culture where you kind of feel like you owe your parents a lot because they gave you life. And so there was a part of me that had this duty that felt like I needed to be a doctor. I need to be that perfect son for them because I’m all they have, right? They have one shot at this.
And I think that’s why; overall, I was just a straight-and-narrow kid because my mom went through so much. She had been in the hospital a few times. She had lupus; she had breast cancer and things like that. And I never wanted to complicate her life with anything more than that because she was already going through a tremendous amount. So I would go grocery shopping with her, where at a certain point, maybe kids are like, oh, I don’t want to go grocery shopping with you. It’s boring, right? I was still that kid. I was a mama’s boy. I would go out, and I would do groceries. I would do the yard work. She’d want me to cut a whole ficus tree down with, like, a little handsaw. And I’d be like, okay, Mom, I love you. I would just do all these things just to please her.
But another part about it was I always wanted to make her laugh because that was kind of my way of making sure that she was happy and she was enjoying life. Like, for example, I signed up for Little League soccer. But because sunlight can aggravate her body because of lupus, she would have to watch it from underneath the trees. But the trees were, like, super far out. So whenever she always took me to soccer practice, always watched all my games and stuff like that, but she had to watch it from the inconvenience of, like, from the far other ends of the field because of her condition. And it was like she always made compromises to make sure that I could have the life that I wanted, but it was added an inconvenience to her.
And so my relationship with my mom was always very special because my dad was very much about being a doctor and making money, and so I was home with her all the time, and she took me to karate lessons and soccer practice and baseball and basketball. She guided me through getting ready for college and things like that. And I remember her being really heartbroken about when I went to college because, in a weird way, I’m just left with your dad, and that kind of sucks. Funny thing. And so I was like, I was really my mom’s best friend.
I wanted to tell this story just to honor her because if it wasn’t for her ability to see what I really needed and I think that’s something beautiful about parents, and mothers, in particular, is that I think there’s this bond that you have coming from their womb that they just have, like, this 6th sense of knowing, oh, something else is up. Right? And she knew that I was being raised, and I was growing up in a very white, conservative, rural, Christian town, and I was just one of the handful of Asian kids that just stuck out like a sore thumb.
And she knew life would be a lot different if I lived someplace that had some semblance of a tighter Asian community. You can have an Asian community, but then those are broken up into subsets of Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Filipino, and what have you. But where I’m from, it’s a really rare case to find someone who’s Thai. If you find someone in that time and era, someone from Thailand, the thought is like, how did you end up here? Right?
And so that was another part of my identity that really became conflicted. Because as much as they wanted me to embrace my Asianness, the closest we could do was to go to the Chinese New Year Festival or something like that. And I would hang around other Asian kids that were embracing their Chinese heritage, but like, oh, yeah, Hi. I’m Thai. But I’m hanging out here because you’re also Asian kids. And there was just, like, this disconnect about not being Thai. And there was something that my mom felt like maybe she had let me down because it was something that was quickly given up because there was really no community to really embrace that.
And the other part was I couldn’t speak the language. And that’s always a sensitive thing, especially when you get older, like, oh, gosh, I really regret dropping the ball, not learning Thai, right? And even going through college, learning a foreign language… It was, like, always the hardest thing. And my mom watching me grow up, watching me kind of struggle at times. She knew how important a trip like this would probably be for me now.
I never told her about these awful things that happened in junior high. She never knew about me choking in front of the school. She never knew about me being laughed at by kids or whatever. There was just a part of her that just knew and understood that there was something lacking in terms of who I was. And she knew that getting out of that town and seeing how great the world was would be something that was such an invaluable experience for her. Because before she got sick, my father and my mother went and saw the world. And one of their favorite cities was Salzburg. This trip was coming up, and they looked at the brochure that I hid in my backpack and were like, oh, yeah, we went to Paris. We went to Salzburg. We love all these places. You should check it out. You probably see how beautiful the world is. Like, we see it.
It’s funny because there’s a scene at the beginning of the book where I’m at the airport, I’m wearing my Buddha necklace, and she finds it. She finds it. She’s like, Why are you wearing this? And I said, because I’m embracing my heritage, and she says if you wear it, someone’s going to cut your head off and take it. And I was thinking, like, mom, that’s a little extreme. Like, cut off my head, and there are no qualms. She’s like, take it off. Okay, jeez, you don’t have to yell at me. Right?
What I find adorable about my mom is that she can take things to such extremes. Like back in the day. If you remember, there would be hitchhikers, just, like, thumbing it. And just like sometimes they’d even entice you by holding wads of cash, being like, hey, if you give me a ride, I’ll give you this wad of cash. I remember one time we were entering the freeway in this large Chevrolet station wagon. We were getting on the freeway, probably going like 45, 50 miles an hour. And I remember my mom I remember mom saying, are the doors locked? And I said, yeah. Why? There’s a man hitchhiking, and I’m afraid he might jump into the car and steal a ride. And I’m just like, mom, we’re going 50 miles an hour. They would be completely out of their minds to try to do that. We’re going. And my mom would just take things to such extremes, and I just find it so adorably hysterical.
Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well, I found your mom adorably hysterical. It was great. Well, Dan, I could keep asking you a gazillion questions, but I’m going to finish up with one last one, and that is, what impact do you hope this book has on readers?
Dan Santat: The impact I hope that this has on readers is that I hope—a few things I hope that kids see the entire world in different lights. Okay. I know that’s a tall order to ask. I want them to understand that the world is actually a lot lighter than you would think. Harboring your reservations about everything and being curious and willing to experience new things is going to change who you are as a person. And I think by understanding how big and vast the world is, you’re going to realize that no matter how lonely you feel or how out of place you are, there is a place for you in this world.
I think the best way to say it, and I think the best piece of advice or something that I want to leave kids with ultimately, is you will be okay. No matter what happens, you will be okay. Being a man here, 48 years of age, thinking about the painful moments that I experienced. The bizarre part is that despite how painful they were when I was younger, understanding that the world is so vast in the big picture of it, all those painful memories mean nothing because they’re so insignificant compared to the rest of the world.
And the weirdest part of it all, and the thing that I actually love the most, is that by the time you’re done with all this, and you’re done reading the book, you’re going to realize that you’re going to embrace those painful moments. They make you who you are. And the weird part is that as much as it haunted me, I’m now at a place where I realized I would never give it up. I would do it again. And that’s life. And you take it with the ups and downs, but it shapes you as a person, and I think with the help of understanding, you will be okay. This life is beautiful, and it should be lived. It shouldn’t be something that you’re doing over the phone or in your room, but you do it when you’re ready.
Bianca Schulze: Yes. Well, Dan, that was a beautiful response. So thank you so much. And I have to say it. You are a funny guy. But you’re not just a funny guy, right? And I’m so grateful for the contributions that you make to the world of children’s books. And everything that you put out there is just so incredibly done and, as I said, funny. So thank you for being you, thank you for your art, and thank you for being on the show today.
Dan Santat: Thank you. These are lovely questions. This is probably one of my favorite interviews that I’ve ever done. This was amazing. I was allowed to bear my soul. I wasn’t just talking about craft.
Interview with Dan Sanat, Creator of A First Time for Everything
By: Michele Kirichanskaya
Apr 2, 2025
Dan Santat is the Caldecott Medal–winning and New York Times–bestselling author and illustrator of The Adventures of Beekle: The Unimaginary Friend and the road trip/time travel adventure Are We There Yet? His artwork is also featured in numerous picture books, chapter books, and middle-grade novels, including Dav Pilkey’s Ricky Ricotta series. Dan lives in Southern California with his wife, two kids, and many, many pets.
I had the opportunity to interview Dan, which you can read below.
First of all, welcome to Geeks OUT. Could you tell us a little about yourself?
My name is Dan Santat and I’ve been making children’s books for nineteen years. I’m best known for titles like, Are We There Yet?, After the Fall, and The Adventures of Beekle – The Unimaginary Friend which won the Randolph Caldecott Medal in 2015. I also created the Disney animated series, The Replacements. I have been a geek for about 46 years, now.
What can you tell us about your most recent graphic novel, A First Time for Everything? Where did the inspiration for this story come from?
It started back in 2019 when my oldest son, who was 13 at the time, asked me about the first time I fell in love. I thought about it for a moment and remembered this girl named Amy who I met on this three week trip through Europe back in 1989. My kids asked me about all the details of the trip and suddenly a flurry of memories rushed into my head. Memories about how I ran free through Paris without adult supervision. The time I went to a discotheque in Salzburg with a bunch of girls and ended up stealing a bike in the middle of the night to escape four punk rockers, and my personal favorite, sneaking into Wimbledon and watching the last set of the 1989 Men’s Semifinal between John McEnroe and Stefan Edberg. It was a life changing trip for me after a rough couple of years in junior high. I discovered who I was as a person and learned to like myself. A few days after the discussion with my son I was talking to my editor on the phone and I told her about this trip and she told me to turn it into a this graphic novel. Now, four years later, here we are.
As opposed to your other work, much of which includes children’s books based in fiction and fantasy, A First Time for Everything is a memoir. What made you decide to explore the personal in a graphic novel memoir?
It goes way back in 2010 when I first met Gene Luen Yang, the author of American Born Chinese, at the Miami Book Festival. We hit it off immediately and started chatting about our lives and how we both ended up in publishing and we realized that we had a lot in common. Gene suggested to me that writing a memoir was something lots of Asian American kids would love to read and he encouraged me to try it. My initial memoir proposal was going to be about a period in my life when I first went to Thailand and met my relatives for the first time. It was during this time my mom had breast cancer and so it was emotionally taxing on me and I just wasn’t ready to tackle such a hard story. Thankfully, my son asked me about the first time I fell in love.
How did you find yourself getting into storytelling, particularly comics and children’s books? What drew you to the mediums?
I wasn’t much of a reader back when I was a kid. My parents immigrated from Thailand so they weren’t familiar with most of the Western classics and the reading we did in school never really appealed to me, so I grew up watching lots of TV shows and movies. When I was a kid I remember wanting to become a filmmaker or an actor, but there was a really practical side of me that realized at a young age that there weren’t many Asian actors or filmmakers at that time. Any Asian actor back in the 1980s was either performing martial arts as a Chinese street gang member getting beaten up by Steven Seagal or Jackie Chan, or they were considered the jokes in the movie where they spoke in a funny accent and were always holding cameras. I realized as early as seven years old that storytelling in cinema was never going to be a reality for me. When I turned 11 I had a friend who introduced me to comics and I suddenly found myself engrossed in all these monthlies like Spider-Man, X-Men, and the Hulk, and it felt like a good balance between the marriage of reading and cinema and I started making my own little comics. They were often really bad fan fiction of superhero stories I was reading, but I never engaged in actually making my own stories until I ended up making books professionally. After completing my first picture book, my editor suggested that I try to turn my second project into a graphic novel. The thought of doing such a large project always felt daunting and so I never thought I had the time and discipline to finish one until, well, I actually finished one.
As someone who has worked many of their own picture books, as well as having collaborated with others, can you give insight or advice into what goes into making a picture book?
I think there are two important things people have to consider when making a picture book. The first is that you’re not just telling a story, you’re creating an experience and you have to do it within a very constrained parameter of 32-40 pages. For me, that means that from cover to cover you’re designing every aspect of that book to serve the story. You have opportunities on the endpapers, the title page, even the jacket flaps and case cover. You’re not just an illustrator, you’re a book designer. The second part is that words have to be used sparingly. You have to generate the most bang for your buck with each sentence and with that you have to rely on illustrations to tell the other half of your story. Often times I’ll see books where the author will write text describing the action on the page when you don’t actually need to. It becomes redundant. The author and illustrator need to work together like an ice skating couple. They have to work in unison to make a beautiful routine, and with that comes a certain level of trust that you have to give to your partner.
As a creative, who or what would you say are some of your greatest creative influences and/or sources of inspiration?
From a professional point of view I love the writings of David Sedaris, Malcolm Gladwell, and Judy Blume. I also find inspiration from my peers like Shannon Hale, LeUyen Pham, Mo Willems, and many others. On a broad spectrum, I find inspiration everywhere. It’s not necessarily just in the craft of making books by writing or drawing. If I play a really good video game I try to understand the addictive qualities that make me want to play it for 18 hours straight. If I’m eating food I want to understand the little nuances that heighten the taste in the food. I once took my wife to a Lady Gaga concert and was absolutely blown away by the spectacle of the entire event. She put on an amazing show and everyone in the audience was mesmerized. Those are things you can take away to educate yourself in your own profession. You think about those little details and how you can improve your school presentations for kids or at book store events. The essence of my sources of inspiration derive from the need to understand the passion of the artist who created the art and why it moves people. I’m inspired purely by their passion and I try to match their energy in my own work.
What are some of your favorite elements of writing/illustrating? What do you consider some of the most frustrating and/or challenging?
I think the power of a writer is that we’re ultimately in the business of selling emotion. Making the reader feel certain feelings by crafting a scene is easily my favorite part of the job as a storyteller. The best work comes from those who manage to make a reader feel a certain way with a variety of tools such as crafting beautiful sentences, or pacing the story in a way that the reader is craving to turn to the next page to see what happens. With all those tools at your disposal it can be a balancing act and that’s the challenging part of storytelling. It’s a fluid type of formula that changes its chemistry with each project you do. The other frustrating part of writing is that sometimes you’re writing about a feeling that’s so specific that you wonder if other people have those same feelings. I think we can all sometimes get in our own heads about feeling a certain way thinking you’re the only person in the world with those thoughts, but it turns out that if you write about anything chances are pretty good that you’re gonna find at least one person on a planet of 8 billion people who share those same thoughts.
Besides your work as an author/illustrator what are some things you would want readers to know about you?
I’m just an average guy who’s trying to get the most out of this one shot at life. I understand how fortunate I am being allowed to make a living telling stories for an audience of children and teenagers, as well as some adults, and so I don’t take any of that lightly. I’m always grateful for those around me and as time has gone on I’m thankful for those around me who’ve helped me along the way. I’m a parent of two boys, a husband to a lovely brilliant scientist woman for the last 20 years, and I’m always looking for a new experience. If you see me in public and you recognize me, please feel free to introduce yourself. I want to meet people. I want to imbibe everything in this world
What’s a question you haven’t been asked yet but wish you were (and the answer to that question)?
Q: If I had to turn any of my books into a video game which would I choose?
A: Sidekicks. It would just be a fun four player side scroller like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Are there any projects you are working on or thinking about that you are able to discuss?
The only project of my own that I have set in stone, so far, are three more sequels to my first graphic novel, Sidekicks. It will be a full story arc about the origins of all the characters and how they all tie in together. I’m also currently working on my first middle grade novel idea as well as a silly little picture book idea that is just purely for fun. I’m also currently working on five other projects with various authors at the moment which are all in various stages. I feel like I was in a rut for the last three to five years due to the pandemic and I’m finally coming out of that haze and now the gears in my brain are finally back in motion.
Finally, what books/comics would you recommend to the readers of Geeks OUT?
“Family Style” by Thien Pham, “In Limbo” by Deb JJ Lee, “Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow” by Gabrielle Zevin, and “Hoops” by Matt Tavares
Dan Santat on his graphic memoir 'A First Time For Everything'
December 2, 20237:57 AM ET
Heard on Weekend Edition Saturday
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A class trip to Europe helps an awkward boy through a challenging time. NPR's Eyder Peralta talks with Dan Santat about his graphic memior, "A First Time For Everything."
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ASMA KHALID, HOST:
One summer when Dan Santat was 13, he left his sleepy California town and went on a class trip to Europe.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "CA POURRAIT CHANGER")
BRIGITTE BARDOT: (Singing in French).
KHALID: It ended up being exactly what his awkward, anxious teenage self needed. Dan Santat and his classmates spent weeks trekking through five countries. They experienced new places, people, languages, food and, for some, even a little romance. Several decades later, Santat detailed that adventure in his graphic memoir called "A First Time For Everything." It's won him this year's National Book Award for Young People's Literature. And earlier this year, Dan Santat spoke with NPR's Eyder Peralta about his book and the trip that inspired it.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
EYDER PERALTA, BYLINE: So, Dan, what were you like before this trip? I mean, what kind of eighth-grader were you?
DAN SANTAT: You know, I would say I was pretty outgoing. I was a pretty friendly kid. I always liked strumming up conversations with other kids and being friendly. And then somewhere around middle school, it just felt like kids had an edge to them. It almost felt as if my childhood was kind of being forcefully taken because there was this idea of being a man and saying, grow up. You've got to toughen up. You've got to be a certain way. I think I adapted to it pretty well. But it, of course, came with its hiccups.
PERALTA: So this trip changes things for you. Of the many experiences that you had, what was your favorite and why?
SANTAT: One of my personal favorites is the time I snuck into Wimbledon. You have to understand, in the 1980s, kids were just set free to do whatever they wanted. The tour group would just say, OK, kids, go have fun in Paris. Go have fun in Switzerland. Go have fun in London. That was just - it was just normal back in the day, and I wanted to go to Wimbledon. I thought, well, this is a great opportunity. The tournament's going on. And so I hopped onto the London Underground with a friend, and I remember getting to Wimbledon and just standing in front of this cute neighborhood thinking, where's the tennis? I was a little panicked. I said, this isn't - I thought it was just going to drop me in front of the tennis match.
And so I'm just wandering the streets for, like, an hour, and it's raining intermittently on and off. And then I finally find Wimbledon. And then when I get to the gates, you know, there's an official that says, oh, we'll be letting people in for 3 pounds after 5 p.m., and that was like 15 minutes away. I paid my 3 pounds, walked on the grounds and again, like I said, it was raining, so I thought, well, maybe I can go see Centre Court.
And I sat down, and then slowly, they're removing the rain tarp. The sideline officials are coming out. They're squeegeeing off the grass. The chair umpire comes out. And then John McEnroe and Stefan Edberg come out to finish the third set of the 1989 Men's Semifinal, and I got to watch it for 3 pounds, and it was probably the most "Forrest Gump" kind of experience anybody could ever have. And I treasure that fully.
PERALTA: There were also other experiences. So I'm guessing closing your eyes, kissing Amy, the girl you had a crush on, then kissing her accidentally in the ear was not one of your favorite experiences.
SANTAT: Yeah. So I took some liberties with the experience. In the book, I drop a piece of bread into the fondue pot, and I guess the tradition was that you were supposed to kiss the person next to you when you do that. Amy was sitting next to me, and I'm getting heckled by these really popular girls from my school who were like, do it, do it, do it. And in this particular case, Amy agrees. She says, OK, just to get the girls off your back, you can kiss me on the cheek. I close my eyes, and I pucker up, and I end up kissing her on the ear, which is, you know, the most awkward first kiss ever.
Now, truthfully, what actually happened in real life was I was on a bus to Salzburg, and she was sitting next to me. And at this point, we had already expressed our feelings for one another. And, of course, those same girls were, you know, sitting right behind me. And they're whispering into my ear, just - oh, just give her a peck on the cheek. Ask if you can kiss her. Just, you know, whisper to her. And I remember leaning over to Amy and saying, can I kiss you? She was really sheepishly, like, grinning and just nodding, like, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
And then we go into a tunnel and it's dark for, like, 10, 15 seconds. I'm just navigating in the dark, you know, just with my lips, just trying to find something. And then when the bus comes out of the tunnel, I see her with her eyes fully dilated and her hand against her ear looking at me. And, of course, the girls in the back - they just shout out, did you just kiss her on the ear? And then there's just a rupture of laughter that just fills the entire bus, and I was mortified. And I didn't try kissing Amy again for, like, another, like, two weeks. I was so embarrassed.
PERALTA: So Dan, you primarily write for children and a young adult audience. Do you think there are significant differences between what you experienced back when you were in middle school - the situations, emotions and pressures that we see play out in this memoir - and what middle schoolers are going through today, what your kids are going through today?
SANTAT: What you tend to see is that adolescence is a cycle, you know? You go through these rigors of being a teenager, and then as your kids are growing up, you actually see them going through those same pressures, right? It's just - the only difference is that the clothes are different and, you know, music has changed. But for the most part, it's just a revolving circle of repeating events. I think sometimes as adults, we kind of do a disservice by assuring them that parents are flawless and that we can take care of anything. And now, you know, with my boys, after telling them all the events of this memoir, we're actually much, much tighter than ever, and they're more open to telling me all kinds of things, mainly because I've shown them that I've been fallible, that I've made mistakes that they've made. And as a result, I think they feel - you know, there's this saying where they say, well, I'm not supposed to be your friend. I'm your parent, you know? And I think there is a way to be both.
PERALTA: This level of freedom that you describe in this memoir allows you to learn so much about yourself. But at the end of the book, you add a note saying that maybe kids shouldn't have this kind of freedom. I don't know - you know, drinking beer at 13 or stealing bikes.
SANTAT: (Laughter).
PERALTA: But you turned out OK, right?
SANTAT: Right. Right. I mean, you know, I think any Gen Xer that grew up knows that you went to a birthday party, and then, in the middle of the night, you snuck down to the TV to watch HBO, you know, something maybe you shouldn't have watched, like, you know, "Halloween 4," or - you know, or something, right? We don't want to talk about those things, but we did some pretty shady things. But there is something to be gained from living life to its fullest. And I think that's something that's important for all kids to have and experience.
PERALTA: Wow. So last question, the most important one. You drank a lot of Fanta on this trip.
SANTAT: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
PERALTA: (Laughter) Do you still drink a lot of Fanta, and do you have a favorite flavor?
SANTAT: I was actually recently in Singapore, and they had this lychee Fanta which I was really enamored by, so I can safely say that I think I've had every flavor of Fanta. But as someone who's very nostalgic and just loves the classics, I always go back to my favorite, which is orange, which was my first. And you never forget your first.
PERALTA: (Laughter). Dan Santat, author of the new graphic memoir, "A First Time for Everything." Thank you, Dan.
SANTAT: Thank you very much.
KHALID: That was NPR's Eyder Peralta from this past February. Dan Santat's book won the National Book Award for Young People's Literature just a few weeks ago.
Santat, Dan A FIRST TIME FOR EVERYTHING First Second (Children's None) $14.99 2, 28 ISBN: 978-1-250-85104-8
A 1989 summer trip to Europe changes Caldecott Medal winner Santat's life in this graphic memoir.
Young Dan hasn't experienced much beyond the small Southern California town he grew up in. He stays out of trouble, helps his parents, and tries to go unnoticed in middle school. That plan gets thwarted when he is made to recite poetry at a school assembly and is humiliated by his peers. When eighth grade is over and his parents send him on a three-week study abroad program, Dan isn't excited at first. He's traveling with girls from school whom he has awkward relationships with, his camera breaks, and he feels completely out of place. But with the help of some new friends, a crush, and an encouraging teacher, Dan begins to appreciate and enjoy the journey. Through experiences like his first taste of Fanta, first time hearing French rap, and first time getting lost on his own in a foreign country in the middle of the night, he finally begins to feel comfortable just being himself and embracing the unexpected. This entertaining graphic memoir is a relatable story of self-discovery. Flashbacks to awkward memories are presented in tones of blue that contrast with the full-color artwork through which Santat creates the perfect balance of humor and poignancy. The author's note and photos offer readers more fun glimpses into his pivotal adventure.
Full of laughter and sentiment, this is a nudge for readers to dare to try new things. (Graphic memoir. 10-14)
Copyright: COPYRIGHT 2022 Kirkus Media LLC
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"Santat, Dan: A FIRST TIME FOR EVERYTHING." Kirkus Reviews, 15 Dec. 2022. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A729727380/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=09430763. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Zappa, Ahmet BECAUSE I'M YOUR MOM Little, Brown (Children's None) $17.99 3, 28 ISBN: 978-0-316-33821-9
A decade after Because I'm Your Dad (2013) came out, musician Zappa and illustrator Santat reunite to bring the same story to life from a slightly different perspective.
Grandiose promises mix with those of a more standard variety as a mama monster makes a series of vows to her child. An innocuous "Because I'm your mom you're gonna get kissed all over your tummy every day" appears not long before, "Because I'm your mom, you can have nachos for breakfast, pancakes for dinner, and Popsicles in the shower." As the book progresses, the mama continues to couple loving low-key activities alongside others involving plane rides, rock concerts, and "selfies with the Sphinx." Why would the mama monster do such things? "Because that's what my mom did for me." The affection rings true, but actual mamas may balk at a couple of the more extravagant vows, worrying about their own child's expectations. Santat aids where he can, giving the whole venture a peppy vibe replete with bright greens, purples, and blues. Alas, horned monsters and puppicorns can take you only so far when the unmemorable text fails to invite rereads. (This book was reviewed digitally.)
For Zappa fans, a book to rejoice in. For everyone else, a story you've seen before, in one iteration or another. (Picture book. 2-5)
Copyright: COPYRIGHT 2023 Kirkus Media LLC
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"Zappa, Ahmet: BECAUSE I'M YOUR MOM." Kirkus Reviews, 1 Feb. 2023. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A735117733/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=dc2e5e56. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Caldecott Medalist Dan Santat has several books due out this year, including his first middle grade graphic memoir
There's a moment in Dan Santat's new graphic memoir, The First Time for Everything (First Second, Feb.), when young Dan is shown literally walking on air, having just had the adventure of his brief lifetime. After escorting his crush back to her homestay during a school trip to Salzburg, Austria, he suddenly realizes it's late and he's utterly lost--and the city is essentially shut down for the night. He grabs an unlocked bike, and when that summons forth a gang of punks from the shadows, he zooms away in a state of pure exhilaration.
"Salzburg. 1:30 a.m.," the adult Santat narrates. "I am 13, I am invincible."
It's hard not to see at least a hint of that same unstoppable juggernaut in the 2015 Caldecott Medalist's professional life right now. Along with the publication of the 320-page memoir, February will also see the launch of Misfit Mysteries from Random House, the first in a middle grade series with Santat's Bobby vs. Girls collaborator Lisa Yee. And in March, Little, Brown will publish Because I'm Your Mom, Santat and Ahmet Zappa's follow-up to 2013's Because I'm Your Dad.
"Out of the blue Ahmet called me and said, 'Let's do a sequel,' " Santat recalls with a laugh. "It had been years since I'd last spoken to him, and my first thought was, 'I'm sorry, who's this?'"
Santat chalks all of his projects in the pipeline up to the relentless and therapeutic nature of his work ethic. The pandemic gave him more room to complete his memoir ("I'd work on a project knowing I wouldn't hear from someone for six weeks"), but, he adds, "I don't think my work ethic ever really waned. If I'm alone with my thoughts, my mind goes to dark places--the horrible insecurity that you have."
There's also another, even more existential pressure at work. "After I won the Caldecott I blinked and 11 years of my life had gone by," Santat says. "I know I have a finite amount of time to make books. I'm going to be 48 in October, and I have more ideas than I know how to make."
Santat has always been an avid collaborator, but he's calling 2023 his "celebrity year." After two opportunities to work with actor and author Henry Winkler fell through for one reason or another, this fall Santat launches Detective Duck, a series with Winkler and coaurhor Lin Oliver, coming from Abrams. The series centers on a duck who solves eco-crimes from the home base of his New Hampshire pond. Santat says it was a collaboration worth waiting for, adding that Winkler is "like the sweet grandfather who would give you Werther's butterscorch and then pull a quarter out of your ear."
Another one of Santat's fall 2023 books is a picture book collaboration with Jake Gyllenhaal, who, proving that Hollywood is a small town, happens to have been friends with Winkler since boyhood. Santat says he found himself "in this crazy world" where he'd be Zooming with Gyllenhaal while the actor was on location in Spain or the Dominican Republic, "and he's telling me stories about Henry. Everybody knows each other--that's how Hollywood works."
The Secret Society of Aunts and Uncles (Feiwel and Friends), which Gyllenhaal coauthored with Greta Caruso, was also an opportunity for Santat to play the role of mentor. The original was "very fun, very goofy--a rare case where I get a manuscript that I can clearly spot all the spreads in my mind as to how it's going to be illustrated," Santat says. But it also clocked in at about 63 pages, and he had to break the news that "that's not gonna work." He helped Gyllenhaal whittle it down to 44 pages, then 40, and was impressed with the actor's openness to treat the cuts as teachable moments.
"Typically, when you work with an author, they're very precious with their words--it's very hard to let go of that kind of control and understand that the illustrator has to carry half the burden," Santat says, adding that the issue can be even more complicated when the collaborator is a bold-faced name. "Jake took to the process like a fish to water." (Santat adds that having his name paired with Gyllenhaal resulted in a burst of social media tagging by people he knew in junior high and high school.)
Meanwhile, collaborations with fellow children's lit veterans have also given Santat plenty of opportunity to stretch. A reunion with Mo Willems (the two had previously joined forces for Harold & Hog Pretend for Real!, part of the Elephant & Piggie Like Reading! series) is opening up some new aesthetic avenues. "We just had a meeting and I'm going to be doing it as photography and paintings in different eras," Santat says. "Some of my best work is when I don't know what the end result is going to be."
Amid this flurry of collaborations, Santat is working on a second graphic novel memoir. It marks a return of sorts to the story that originally motivated him to consider autobiography: his mother's bout with breast cancer. But when his editor, Connie Hsu at Macmillan, heard about his trip to Europe, she urged him to start there instead. "She said, 'This will teach you how to write memoir,'" he recalls. Drawing on what Santat describes as the "clarity" he achieved from that process, the new memoir uses his mother's illness, which occurred after he had returned from his Europe trip, as a portal to his parents' own origin stories. He wanted a deeper understanding of how their experiences growing up shaped their parenting. The Santat family was "tight," he adds, but that didn't mitigate a lot of "butting heads" with his traditionalminded father.
"I feel like a lot of parents aren't open with their kids about their pasts--they always have to act like they're in control, and that's a disservice to our kids," Santat says. "My relationship with my kids is I tell them everything, all the mistakes I've made, and it gives them a perspective that you're not infallible and it's okay to make mistakes."
Santat has also been thinking about what it means to be giving voice to the Asian American experience at a time of growing violence. The recent mass shooting in Monterey Park, Calif, took place three miles from his home, and the second dance studio the gunman targeted "is literally a few blocks from me," he notes.
Citing American Born Chinese, Gene Luen Yang's 2008 graphic novel, as a work that "changed my life," Santat says he feels a need for more Asian American stories to move beyond the didactic and "evolve into something more for the conversation of diversity in literature to continue to grow."
Santat has another, albeit far less weighty, issue on his mind: the subject of his third tattoo, which would join a tattoo of Beekle (celebrating his Caldecott-winning book, The Adventures of Beekle) and one of a feather (a tribute to his wife and the book she inspired, After the Fall).
"My father had a very antiquated view of what the tattooing world was like, and one of his dying wishes was, 'Don't get any more tattoos, I don't want you getting hepatitis,'" Santat says. Nonetheless, he thinks he'll pay tribute to his heritage with a Thai dragon for his left drawing arm. "Once you get one tattoo, the rest of your body feels empty."
By LIBBY MORSE
Libby Morse is a writer and longtime contributor to Publishers Weekly.
Copyright: COPYRIGHT 2023 PWxyz, LLC
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Morse, Libby. "One Busy Guy." Publishers Weekly, vol. 270, no. 8, 20 Feb. 2023, pp. 25+. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A739490477/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=2d3c6570. Accessed 5 May 2025.
The Secret Society of Aunts & Uncles
Jake Gyllenhaal and Greta Caruso, illus. by Dan Santat. Macmillan/Feiwel and Friends, $18.99 (48p) ISBN 978-1-2507-7699-0
It's bad enough when Leo's glasses fly off during his beloved ballet class, causing a pileup up at the barre. Then Uncle Mo, the very picture of a stickler, shows up to babysit and rattles off a litany of rules, ending with a final coup de grace--"Bedtime is at 8 p.m. And no dessert tonight." Cleatly the universe can't allow that to stand, and the two, portrayed with pale skin, are suddenly whisked into "the wonderful in-between," where the Secret Society of Aunts & Uncles "preserves the ancient arts of Auntieology and Uncleology." A kid panel quickly deems Uncle Mo in need of Emergency Basic Training, during which he learns the ways of nibling connection: bedtime is "always three minutes before Mom and Dad get home," making sundaes counts as cooking, and a nephew is not a charge to be managed, but a real human being. In a double picture book debut, actor Gyllenhaal and entrepreneur Caruso expand on a winning premise that explains why aunts and uncles become the cool adult in so many children's lives. Caldecott Medalist Santat infuses the story with all the verve of a game show challenge, portraying the Secret Society's trainees, of various species and human skin tones, with oodles of comic drama. Ages 4-6. (Sept.)
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"The Secret Society of Aunts & Uncles." Publishers Weekly, vol. 270, no. 28, 10 July 2023, p. 56. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A758336759/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=14e12463. Accessed 5 May 2025.
A Royal Conundrum (The Misfits #1)
Lisa Yee, illus. by Dan Santat. Random House, $14.99 (288p) ISBN 978-1-9848-3029-6
Ever since her grandmother Mimi's death, East Asian American tween Olive Cobin Zhang--who "never fit in" at school and hardly sees her busy parents--has felt especially alone. Worse, her mother abruptly sends her to a former castle that had been turned into a prison before being converted into a "reforming arts school." But the prestigious boarding school is a cover; soon, Olive is recruited for an experimental group of covert child operatives to serve as the eyes and ears of rhe pseudo-government crime-fighting organization No One Can Know, or NOCK. She quickly befriends fellow operative and computer genius Philomena, as well as tough girl Iggy, bookworm James, and laid-back Theo; together, they deem themselves the Misfits. Yee (Maizy Chen's Last Chance) builds suspense in this spy-adjacent series opener by utilizing an immediate feeling third-person perspective to depict Olive's grief over Mimi and attempts to make friends while contending with secretive and dangerous circumstances. An in media res opening alongside expressive and animated b&w pencil illustrations by Santat (A First Time for Everything) add dynamism to the text and heighten the rapidly paced narrative. One of the Misfits wears a hi jab and another is Black; other supporting characters are depicted with varying skin tones. Ages 8-12. (Jan.)
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"A Royal Conundrum (The Misfits #1)." Publishers Weekly, vol. 270, no. 43, 23 Oct. 2023, p. 47. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A772537248/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=e82ae767. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Cheng, Charlotte ROAR-CHOO! Rocky Pond Books/Penguin (Children's None) $18.99 4, 9 ISBN: 9780593531754
Being fierce is hard when you're struggling with a cold.
A serpentine scaly green dragon with a flowing orange mane and big teeth and claws fills the page. Our hero explains to Phoenix how tough and terrifying dragons are. "We take on the world with a mighty ROOOOOAAAR CHOO!" Dragon's sneeze practically blows Phoenix out of the air. Phoenix tries to help by offering orange ginger tea, a blanket, a scarf, and bone broth soup, but Dragon is having none of it. Dragon's attempts at roaring turn into big sneezes, however--until one fiery sneeze causes an inferno that Phoenix must douse. Phoenix, whose energy is now flagging, suggests taking a nap. One more sneeze later, and Phoenix is practically drooping with fatigue as the two friends switch roles. Using a palette of greens, oranges, and golds, Santat depicts the two creatures as larger-than-life cartoons with humorously expressive features. Every page is packed with color and action, but the text feels static in comparison, perhaps because of its small size and lack of variation (a missed opportunity for a typesetting design that matches the exuberance and personality of the two characters). Nevertheless, this simple but entertaining tale will be a pleasure to read aloud. An author's note discusses the significance of the dragon and the phoenix in Chinese mythology.
A funny premise, executed with verve. (Picture book. 3-7)
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"Cheng, Charlotte: ROAR-CHOO!" Kirkus Reviews, 1 Mar. 2024. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A784238251/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=94ab848d. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Lê, Minh BUILT TO LAST Knopf (Children's None) $18.99 4, 30 ISBN: 9780593569177
A friendship is built and tested.
Two friends are brought together with a "BANG" when they bump into each other, knocking over the block towers they were working on. The children, who both have warm beige skin and short black hair, leave their individual projects aside to let their imaginations run wild as they create together. The results are spectacular, if prone to disaster: Their Great Wall is dismantled by a Chinese lion, their lantern-lit boat is capsized by a dragon, and a monster levels their cityscape. Still, the friends seem to find as much joy in the destruction as the building of each new structure. Then they start a new construction, one meant to "stand the test of time." When this, too, collapses, the friends find themselves at an impasse. Can they find a way forward together? Readers will have fun comparing the fantastical worlds the friends occupy with the cardboard-and-tape reality in which they are actually working. Onomatopoeic words are illustrated with force; "CRASH!" judders across the page, and "KABOOM" glows with intensity, promising a satisfying read-aloud experience. With inventive imagery and a relatable conflict, this is a winning selection for crowded storytimes and quiet bedtimes alike.
A playful and captivating tribute to imagination and friendship. (Picture book. 3-7)
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"Le, Minh: BUILT TO LAST." Kirkus Reviews, 1 Mar. 2024. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A784238444/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=7272dc20. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Willems, Mo LEFTY Union Square Kids (Children's None) $18.99 12, 3 ISBN: 9781454951483
Willems continues his forays into the world of informational texts with an unusual overview of our left-handed history.
Two hand puppets (actual hands, there's no felt here) named Lefty and Righty appear on a makeshift stage to present a story to the reading audience. They deliver shocking news: Historically, a person could get in "really, really BIG trouble" for being left-handed. As far back as ancient times, people would hide their left-handedness to fit in. Otherwise, "you might be fired or arrested or teased or thrown out of your village!" While incorporating the occasional choice callback to other Willems books--for instance, the phrase "Hubba Whaaaa!?!?" fromThe Duckling Gets a Cookie (2012)--the book empowers left-handed children to understand that "you can't be born WRONG RIGHT?" It takes very little to extend such a lesson to other groups forced to conform to society's norms. As Lefty says, "If you're hiding who you are, you feel rotten." Meanwhile, Santat (clearly having a ball) draws historical sections in the style of Puritanical pamphlets, Greco-Roman friezes, and 1950s ad campaigns. Our main characters are real hands with illustrated glasses perched on top, allowing the artist to portray all kinds of emotions through their little drawn eyes. Humans depicted are diverse; the hands are light-skinned.
A handy message goes down smooth when delivered with a little history and a lot of shameless silliness.(Informational picture book. 4-7)
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"Willems, Mo: LEFTY." Kirkus Reviews, 1 Aug. 2024. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A802865226/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=ee1c7d16. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Santat, Dan A COPYCAT CONUNDRUM Random House (Children's None) $14.99 1, 7 ISBN: 9780593564226
A squad of young crime fighters sniff out art thieves and hidden treasure in this second round of high-tech, pastry-fueled sleuthing.
Challenges practically drop into the laps of Olive Cobin Zang and her four companion Misfits, even as a string of ominous messages a worried classmate receives lead to a tangle of mysteries. They involve old tales of a lost ship filled with gold and valuable Chinese artifacts, oddly localized earthquakes linked to bank and other heists, and hints that treasures in a San Francisco art museum are being surreptitiously switched out for fakes. In an urgently paced plot delivered with tongue-in-cheek twists aplenty, Yee sends her eager investigators scurrying into crime scenes and hidden rooms, with occasional quick breaks to plan or compare notes over treats from the Butter Bakery. A climactic Mission: Impossible-style museum break-in requires all of Olive's unusual acrobatics skills. The classic denouement she delivers dressed (appropriately) as Miss Marple leads to a brief high-speed chase as a culprit tries to escape in an Oscar Mayer Wienermobile. Readers are treated to a whirl of revelations and golden discoveries, and throughout they'll be swept along, both by the breathlessly paced developments and by the individually awkward but collectively unstoppable team leading the racially diverse cast. Final art not seen.
Nonstop action, delivered with a wink. (agent profiles, gadget profiles)(Adventure. 8-12)
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"Santat, Dan: A COPYCAT CONUNDRUM." Kirkus Reviews, 15 Nov. 2024. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A815560432/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=004bf68b. Accessed 5 May 2025.
Fish are super cool, right? For starters, they can breathe underwater; they come in a glorious array of sizes, shapes and colors; and they've starred in beloved animated films, too. But the narrator of the wonderfully hilarious Don't Trust Fish (Dial, $18.99, 9780593616673) thinks we shouldn't be so quick to praise our fishy so-called friends, instead warning in big bold letters, "DON'T TRUST FISH!"
It's not easy to craft a laugh-out-loud story, but Irish playwright and novelist Neil Sharpson gets it just right in his picture book debut. As does National Book Award-winner and Caldecott Medalist Dan Santat, with witty illustrations sure to inspire even more giggling as readers eagerly discover why the aggrieved narrator insists we should not trust fish.
At first, the narrator calmly shares facts about mammals, reptiles and birds that are accompanied by photorealistic illustrations, as one might expect in a guide to animals. But it soon becomes clear the narrator just can't get over the otherworldly mystique and unpredictability of fish. As the illustrations grow more colorful and their lines more relaxed, sedately scientific language is peppered with warnings like, "Some fish eat poor, innocent crabs who are just trying to have a nice time in the sea." Things escalate: "Fish spend all their time in the water. Where we can't see them.... Are they plotting our doom?"
By the time readers realize the narrator is (surprise!) an indignant crab with an unshakable anti-fish fixation, they'll have learned and laughed many times over. Don't Trust Fish is an educational and highly entertaining delight sure to inspire interest in oceanography and ichthyology--and lots of rereads. (Just don't tell any crabs you may know!)
Copyright: COPYRIGHT 2025 BookPage
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Castellitto, Linda M. "Don't Trust Fish By Neil Sharpson Illustrated by Dan Santat." BookPage, May 2025, p. 30. Gale General OneFile, link.gale.com/apps/doc/A835362603/ITOF?u=schlager&sid=bookmark-ITOF&xid=d6c80c4c. Accessed 5 May 2025.